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Post by Merkuri on Apr 22, 2004 13:09:38 GMT -5
Umm... what do you mean about "cloaking" technology? If you're talking about star trek where the Klingon ships dissapear then I really doubt we can do anything like that well or for a useful period of time. And there are plenty of technologies that have been developed, but not to the point where they are useful or feasable. Just because we know how to do it doesn't mean we can use it. If something's not feasable, you can bet whatever black ops you're talking about probably won't use it. They have a budget, too.
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Post by Challenger on Apr 22, 2004 13:45:46 GMT -5
I think I'll back Merkuri on this
Given that governments world wide have shown a repeated inability to produce anything technologicaly superior to anything comercialy produced the odds on a black opps unit have super secret gear that never got passed on to anyone in the regulars is low. I mean why bother going to the expences of officialy producing these new toys when the unificial version just wants rolling out?
Cloaking technology? Care to explain just how they intent this to work. Is this the thousands of little cameras and tv screens thoery?
Challenger
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Post by EK - Shadow of Death on Apr 22, 2004 15:34:43 GMT -5
There is no company in the world that puts more money into scientific research and development than the US government. They have a budget of many billions of dollars. Where do you think that massive defense budget goes? Its certainly not all to build things on a minor scale (like build the military, etc). Much of it goes into research so that we can stay at the top. If we have cloaking, mind control, tiny listeners, etc. I would not be surprised.
And BTW, most classified research projects are taken on by independent government contractors (Lockheed-Martin, GTRI, etc), and thus can be put off the record, so that the high-ups don't have to account for anything.
However, I'm quite sure that people in black ops have FAR better things to do than bug every single gun in America. Its feasible alright, but the benefits don't outweigh the costs.
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Post by Merkuri on Apr 22, 2004 15:45:58 GMT -5
I work for one of those government contractors you spoke of, and up until a couple months ago I was working on their most advanced helicopter. Let me tell you, though it was impressive there was no science fiction stuff on this baby. The US gov't does spend a ton of money on R&D, but very little of that actually turns out real usable projects, and most of those you hear about anyway. And I can pretty much guarantee you that we don't have mind control. You folks make my dad's paranoia seem reasonable. If we had stuff like that you could be sure we'd be using it. We are at war, you know, and if we had the resources I'm sure they'd all be over in Iraq being fire-tested. There are technologies that the government is working on that they're not letting the population at large know about, I'm sure, but come on? Mind control?? I'd say that you watch too much science fiction, but so do I and even I can say that that's impossible.
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agamoto
Soldier
Greetings and salutations one and all!!
Posts: 239
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Post by agamoto on Apr 23, 2004 5:02:05 GMT -5
Concerning cloaking, it uses massive inducter coils(they alter/bend the electromagnetic spetrum to a certain degree depending on there size, number of coils, and the curent running through them) to bend the visable light spectrum. Has any one heard of the philadelphia project? A documentary/interview was done over the radio about it.
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Post by Challenger on Apr 23, 2004 5:47:00 GMT -5
To my knowledge you can't effect light waves, quanta or whatever that actualy are or happen to decide to be at any given moment, (This was so much similar before A level) can't be effected by magnetic fields. I can't see how using what is particaly a giant electro magnet could possible have that effect. Might be wrong but I'd be very supprised.
Challenger
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Post by Merkuri on Apr 23, 2004 8:20:18 GMT -5
Theoretically, Challenger, you could affect light waves with magnetic fields because visible light is just a certain part of the electro magnetic spectrum. However, I don't believe it's possible to warps light waves such that what's behind an object is visible. You'd need some way to "record" the image of what's behind said invisible object and then warp the light on the other side of it to match... then you'd have to do this from every concievable angle. Or you could find some way to make the light pass through the object, which is pretty much physically impossible. I'm sorry, Agamoto, but I looked up some information on the Philadelphia Project/Project Rainbow, and it all looks pretty doubtful to me. There's no records of the event, only rumors that in July 1943 a ship (USS Eldridge) somehow got from Philadelphia, PA to Norfolk, VA without being seen. One of the "theories" is that scientists actually succeeded in transporting it through space and time. It all looks like bull to me. I mean, if we discovered how to do any of this in 1943, even by accident, why haven't we worked on it since? Or used it? I find it hard to believe that they'd keep something like this a secret for 60 years and never find a use for it. If they are keeping a working ship-cloak or ship-transporter a secret, what the hell are they waiting for? World War III? Usually rumors like this, especially really really unlikely ones, are just that: rumors. If the government really was working on stuff like this you can bet we'd never hear about any of it. They can keep things a secret when they want to. When something like this "leaks", you can bet it was just somebody's imagination that just ran wild. Here are some sites with info about the Philadelphia Project: Facts: www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq21-1.htmwww.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq21-2.htmLegend: www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/philadelphia.htmlEdit: It sounds like what you were talking about with your inductor coils was the process of degaussing a ship. Degaussing a ship does make it invisible. To mines. Degaussing cancels out the ship's magnetic field. Degaussing is a fairly common process. If you have a fairly recent monitor (say, last five years or so) you probably have a "degauss" button. It's the one that when you press, your monitor will go "wooorn" and wiggle for a moment. That's canceling out any electromagnetic fields in the room to be sure the monitor displays correctly.
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Post by Challenger on Apr 23, 2004 11:06:27 GMT -5
Fraid not Merkuri problem is light is not a wave though it shows wave like properties. Similarly it is not a partical though it often behaves like one.
We're not exactly sure what the hell it is to be honest though electromagnetic fields have show to have no effect on it.
Challenger
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Post by Merkuri on Apr 23, 2004 11:28:37 GMT -5
Hmm, well last I heard they thought that light was a wave and a particle. Furthermore, some scientists are trying to prove (or have already proven, I don't recall) that all particles, not just photons, can exhibit wavelike properties. I learned this stuff in college physics, but that was a couple years ago so I may not remember everything correctly. Regardless, however, cloaking devices will be impossible for a very long time. We need to make some MAJOR breakthroughs in science before we can manipulate light like that. We know so little about light that we even argue about what it is.
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Post by Hussar on Apr 24, 2004 23:15:18 GMT -5
Before you have anything approaching true cloaking, you might be able to develop smart fabrics. Fabrics which change color to blend in with their surroundings. That sort of thing is in development right now, but, according to Scientific American last month or so, it's still many years from practical use. Cool stuff though.
It really amazes me that people buy into the conspiracy theory stuff. Think about it for a moment. The president cannot even get some extra-marital sex without it become common knowledge. With the huge number of surveilance methods out there undertaken by private citizens, what do you really think are the chances that the government could do anything and keep it completely secret for more than a few years? Realistically you just can't keep anything secret anymore. There are simply far too many paper trails that someone could pick up and far too many people who make their living searching for those trails. Heck, the US couldn't even keep nuclear bombs out of the hands of the Soviets for more than a few years. And that was before email and hacking. Keeping a secret in 1950 would have been a lot easier than now.
So take a deep breath and repeat after me: "There is nothing at Area 51. There was no second shooter. They really did land on the moon a number of times and the golfballs are still there to prove it." Say that to yourself a few times every day and you'll find that life becomes much simpler.
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Post by Merkuri on Apr 25, 2004 8:05:42 GMT -5
Before you have anything approaching true cloaking, you might be able to develop smart fabrics. Fabrics which change color to blend in with their surroundings. That sort of thing is in development right now, but, according to Scientific American last month or so, it's still many years from practical use. Cool stuff though. I saw a picture of that a little while ago... at least, I think that's what I saw. It looked like a guy standing about 20 feet in front of a truck wearing a hooded sweatshirt that had an image on it that looked incredibly similar to what was behind him. Of course, you could still obviously tell that it was a person and the image on his shirt was very very blurry, but it still was very cool.
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Post by EK - Shadow of Death on Apr 25, 2004 12:32:06 GMT -5
So take a deep breath and repeat after me: "There is nothing at Area 51. There was no second shooter. They really did land on the moon a number of times and the golfballs are still there to prove it." Say that to yourself a few times every day and you'll find that life becomes much simpler. Yea, I've been reading Guide to the Technocracy lately. Builds the paranoia
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Post by khyron1144 on Apr 25, 2004 13:50:39 GMT -5
I'm willing to buy into conspiracy in so far as I am willing to believe that the government plots against the people. Anything to do with aliens or technology more than a year or two ahead of what civilians have access to strikes me as silly though.
And for anybody who doesn't think the government plots against the people consider this: Since the start of our war against Iraq, who has been in more danger a) President Shrubby II or b) your fellow working class citizen who signed up for the army to get that GI Bill scholarship and is getting shipped out to Iraq?
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Post by Merkuri on Apr 25, 2004 14:06:42 GMT -5
Come on, Khyron. You don't seriously believe that Bush started the war in order to put American lives in danger? I believe he led us to war for the wrong reasons, but he didn't do it so that Americans would die. He may not be doing what's best for the country, but he's not doing it in order to hurt us. I believe that he did have America's best interests at heart. Of course, what he believes America needs is vastly different from what I believe America needs, but I do not think he was conspiring against the American people. That's just ridiculous. Why would he do something like that? His main goal is to stay in the White House for another four years, and plotting against American citizens ain't the smartest way to do that. Bush may not be the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but even he must be smart enough to realize that.
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Post by EK - Shadow of Death on Apr 25, 2004 15:16:38 GMT -5
I agree with Merkuri. Bush probably considers himself an emancipator and a saint-like figure for having deposed Sadaam Hussein, not happy for the deaths of hundreds of Americans.
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