|
Post by Chahiero on Jun 6, 2004 2:47:12 GMT -5
I think it's entirely possible it'll go in my lifetime, I can't speak for you though, but if things go the way they are for much longer, I really don't know where'll we be in 20 or 30 years.
If we're still around that is...
|
|
|
Post by Hussar on Jun 6, 2004 7:39:47 GMT -5
Why? Why would America fall in the next three decades. What could cause the destruction of the largest, most integrated economy in the world? Other than massive natural disasters I suppose.
While China is making great strides, it's a long, long ways from coming close to catching the US. Heck, they haven't even caught Canada yet, and we've got, what, 1/100th the population. America has nicely set itself up as the economic standard for the world. Most companies, certainly any truly serious ones, use American business practices. American corporate law is being taken up by countries all over the world. It's to the point where even the English language has been set as the standard. All because of the US.
This "War on Terror", meh, drop in the bucket. Twenty years ago it was the Paper Dragons that were going to rule the world. Ten years ago it was Eastern Europe. Now it's the Chinese. Meh, the US has been in the number one spot for over a century now. That's right. For more than 100 years, the US has been the largest economy on the planet. And it ain't going anywhere.
|
|
|
Post by Chahiero on Jun 6, 2004 13:21:24 GMT -5
Oh the same thing that did in Greece, Rome, Egypt, etc.
They were definetly the largest economies, biggest armies, entrenched in the world, etc. etc. - they still went bye bye.
|
|
X
Peasant
No-name
Posts: 16
|
Post by X on Jun 6, 2004 13:53:11 GMT -5
It's to the point where even the English language has been set as the standard. All because of the US. Eng lish = Eng landAmerican, I believe, is bastardized English. As are a good portion of North American families...mine included. The British (English), I like to think anyway, did a far more 'effective' way of 'distributing' the English language across this once great planet. Not in its modern form, no. But in and through its 'introduction'. (editor's note: the quotations are of a sarcastic nature, and any number of malicious descriptors may be substituted in their stead.) Organized cults, I mean, 'religion', did a mighty fine job it it as well... The avergae lifetime of an empire has to be in the centuries, so...America (sorry, the United States of America) is due for quite the run of things yet. Barring a unified enemy. For the average U.S. kid, lets hope that don't happen...yeah? And you're absolutely right, Hussar. The 'States ain't goin' nowhere in our lifetime. And in fact, if they do, then Canada goess too, cos it'll have to be some sort of nuclear scourge that'll flay North America. The problem, the source of my posts, is the USofA's representation on the global scale. ie: brutish policies, egotism of its government, it's (now) tongue-in-cheek propaganda (mark these years history buffs!), etc., etc. Just to make things a little clearer: I got no problem with the people; it's just their country... Not that I think of stuff like this 24-7. It's only when I'm watching (and smirking at) CNN... >8)
|
|
|
Post by Chahiero on Jun 6, 2004 22:27:45 GMT -5
The last clause in that sententce is my primary source of worry.
|
|
|
Post by Hussar on Jun 7, 2004 2:51:10 GMT -5
Well, there were numerous causes of the fall of those respective empires. But, one of the main ones was the barbarians at the gates. Guess what? That ain't gonna happen. The US, right now, spends more on its military than the next 15 countries combined. By the end of the decade, it is expected to outpace the rest of the planet. And all that for just 5% of the GNP. Which is actually very modest by most standards. That gives you a general idea of how much bigger the US is than the rest of us.
Look at it another way. Japan is the #2 economy. Has been for quite a while. Still is. Yet, Japan has been through fifteen years of recession. At the same time, The US has seen the largest economic growth in history.
There isn't an empire in history that can even come close to comparing to the relative economic power that the US controls. The Romans were a drop in the bucket compared to the relative wealth of the US. Even England, at the height of the Empire, was not all that much larger economically, than its neighbours. People just don't seem to understand that the US, for the first time in history, is so far ahead of the rest of the planet, that it's not even funny.
And, the US has apparently learned from the errors of the past. It has not built an empire. For most of its history, the US has been content to simply build and ignore the rest of the world. It's not until the latter half of the twentieth century that the US has become interested in the world. And, even then, it has shown amazing restraint in dealing with what it considers enemies.
For example, compare Russia's response to Chechnya with the US's response to Iraq. The Russians have been busily crushing a people, without so much as a peep from the world community, but the Americans screw up and take pictures and it's headline news for weeks.
|
|
|
Post by Chahiero on Jun 7, 2004 3:18:21 GMT -5
It is that ignoring the world that will be it's downfall, I think.
May have the biggest single military, but I don't think it can stand the rest of the world.
And as to barbarians at the gates, I really hate to bring it up like this, it's painful to use a memory like this, but if not that, then what was 9/11?
|
|
|
Post by Hussar on Jun 7, 2004 8:21:28 GMT -5
To be rather cold and unfeeling, 9/11 was a blip. A minor act that will be forgotten. Or rather something that will be pointed to and used for political gain for years. As far as effect goes, what effect did it have? The stock exchange is as healthy as it has been in recent years, the economy chugs along. As far as effect goes, there's no difference between 9/11 and Oklahoma. People move on.
Why should it have to stand up to the rest of the world? Believe it or not, most countries are still pretty friendly with the US. Even France, despite the three toothed trailer trash inbred hillbillies on TV, is cozying back up with the US. The media blows it out of proportion.
|
|
|
Post by Chahiero on Jun 7, 2004 23:47:12 GMT -5
Cold and unfeeling indeed... to think that the stock markets, green and white peices of paper ... are valued more than all those lives.
I despair for our society.
|
|
|
Post by Merkuri on Jun 8, 2004 7:55:51 GMT -5
More children world-wide die every day from hunger than the number of people who died in the World Trade Center bombings. Sad, but true. Yes, those lives meant something. Yes, it was a tragedy, as is anything that takes lives. But in the long run it didn't affect anyone except the families of those relatively few (compared to the population of the US, or even the population of New York City) who were killed.
|
|
|
Post by Challenger on Jun 8, 2004 8:30:42 GMT -5
Not quite true Mercury
As sad as it is those dead children have little effect on the world as at large. Little to nothing happened about it last year and I don't see the world doing much about it this year.
The world trade center bombing is directly responsible for 1 war, partially responsible for another and is likely to cause more.
On the grand scheme of things its a mere pebble in the ocean however the ripples it was caused are far in excess of that.
Or perhaps in itself it is the tidal wave created buy the ripples of the pebbles which created the terrorists in the first place.
Oh Hussar the reason Russia can get away with Chechnya but the Americans are getting slamed over Iraq is that the Russian airn't claiming to be representing the freedom loving world etc etc and expecting the world to believe it.
Challenger
|
|
|
Post by Hussar on Jun 8, 2004 9:31:27 GMT -5
Oh, fair enough Challenger. I agree with that.
But, as far as 9/11 goes, it's going to be relagated to just another thing. How many people care about Oklahoma? Or any of the other events of the past decade? This will pass. People forget. It's being used as an excuse to push an agenda, but, once that agenda is no longer in power, it will fade to the background. It already is.
If you think it isn't, ask yourself this. Who is in charge of the rebuild? If this was big news, dontcha think that it would be news? Outside of New York, people get on with their lives and move on. It happens.
Chah, you were comparing 9/11 to the Hun invasions of Rome, saying that the barbarians were at the gate. My point is, that 9/11 is an aberation and will be smoothed out. Terrorists are not going to cause the fall of America. Not by a long shot.
People have been saying that America is going to fall for decades. It hasn't happened and won't happen for a very, very long time. Like it or not, America is here to stay. And, there's one thing about it, who else would you like to be in the driver's seat? Compared to former empires - British, French, Roman, Chinese, etc. - America is pretty benign. At least they haven't killed millions of people like any of the above empires have at one time or another.
|
|
|
Post by Challenger on Jun 8, 2004 10:40:32 GMT -5
Actualy Britain and America used similar methods.
The only difference was the British used Gun boats, the US uses Cruise Missiles
However Hussar is right, terrorists arn't going to cause the fall of America, they simply can't do enough damage to destroy her and are never in a billion years going to take her by force. Well unless Bush suddenly decides that there are terrorists in N Korea as there won't be much of America left after that.
Challenger
|
|
|
Post by Chahiero on Jun 8, 2004 15:18:31 GMT -5
America will cause it';s own death... I think.
Like him or not, Mahyer (sp?) had it right when he said: "We have met the enemy, and they are us."
Didn't we as a society learn anything from Coloumbine?
|
|
|
Post by Hussar on Jun 8, 2004 19:45:37 GMT -5
For some reason, people think that Columbine was something new. These kinds of things have happened in the past. Not often, fortunately, but they have happened. Our society is no more violent now than it was 50 years ago. What's changed is the awareness of the violence. 50 years ago, you had the 6 o'clock news and the morning paper. That was it. Little competition for a given market. Now, there's two or three 24/7 news channels, umpteen more TV stations, and the internet.
Violent crime in America is at it's lowest in 50 years. Do you hear that statistic trumpeted on the news? Of course not. No one bothers to report good news. All you see are the endless lines of shootings, stabbings and some wingnut who built a homemade tank from a bulldozer and destroyed several buildings.
This idea that there is a rot in America that needs to be dealt with is just reactionism to the endless parade of garbage from network news.
|
|