Initial details, the basics

[Merkuri]

Okay, we're gonna start talking about the basics of what we're going to do.

• What system? Is everyone agreed that we make our own system around the play-by-post style? Hussar mentioned that we might want to base it off of D20 rules, and that sounds like a pretty good idea to me. It saves us the trouble of making up all the nitty gritty details and gives us a base we can build off of. I personally don't know much about D20 besides D&D, but from what I know it seems like a good enough system to use as a base.
  
  
• What time period? Is everyone agreed that we use a medieval/fantasy time period? I had an idea a while ago for my own system that was set in a sci-fi setting with fantasy elements, but it was done in such a way that some planets were completely isolated from the rest of the universe, so they could have their own time periods. Therefore, if a GM wanted to run a medieval fantasy campaign with no sci-fi elements she could just limit it to one of those isolated planets. Does anybody like my idea, or should we just go with plain ol' medieval?
  
  
• What mood/theme? Okay, we have had one person besides me who's spoken in favor of a dark theme. Any other ideas? Humorous? High fantasy (heroes and dragons)? Low fantasy (everday folks trying to eke out an existence)?

Other things we need to think about are what will our classes and races be, or do we want to try something different than a class/race system? I always liked a skills-based system rather than class-based because it gives much more freedom on who your character can be, but that's harder to balance and harder to keep track of. Classes are simpler, but less realistic (we will run into this simple v. realistic debate many times, I believe). We also have to think about whether there will be magic in our world and if so how it works.

[agamoto]

Merkuri said:

Other things we need to think about are what will our classes and races be, or do we want to try something different than a class/race system? I always liked a skills-based system rather than class-based because it gives much more freedom on who your character can be, but that's harder to balance and harder to keep track of. Classes are simpler, but less realistic (we will run into this simple v. realistic debate many times, I believe). We also have to think about whether there will be magic in our world and if so how it works.

How about both, the player gets to use either the skills/abilities method, or to go the quick way and choose a race/class. Theat way you can a realistic but complex char. , or a semi-prefab one.

As for magic, I like to go with a FF style magic, your char earn and/or learns spells and has a number of magic points to use to cast them. For instance, hypotheticaly a fireball costs 10 points to cast, and a spark spell costs 2, you have 20 points at the time and a band of orcs attack. Do yo use two fireballs or ten sparks? Obviously a fireball does more damage silgly but ten sparks has the pontential of doing more damage in the long run, it just takes longer to do.

[Merkuri]

agamoto said:

How about both, the player gets to use either the skills/abilities method, or to go the quick way and choose a race/class. Theat way you can a realistic but complex char. , or a semi-prefab one.

Very good idea. Essentially uou'd have a skills-based system with a few default "paths" or "classes" a character could take, if the player didn't want to spend too much effort custimizing his character.

As for magic, I like to go with a FF style magic, your char earn and/or learns spells and has a number of magic points to use to cast them. For instance, hypotheticaly a fireball costs 10 points to cast, and a spark spell costs 2, you have 20 points at the time and a band of orcs attack. Do yo use two fireballs or ten sparks? Obviously a fireball does more damage silgly but ten sparks has the pontential of doing more damage in the long run, it just takes longer to do.

I like the points idea, but that's often hard to keep track of while playing becaue the number changes so often. It would be easier to keep track of online than live, though, since it's easier to change the number in a digital document than keep erasing and re-writing it on paper. We also need to keep in mind that we want to try and limit the amount of posts that combat takes up. Ten sparks would probably take ten posts, and while it's good to have options we'd like to favor options that take less time to post (but perhaps more time to plan).

I came up with a magic system for this proposed world of mine that never happened. It got pretty complicated, but I thought it was interesting and is probably worth posting. I think it's too complex to use the whole thing, but maybe we can take some ideas from it. The idea was this: There are six or seven "flavors" of magic (like heat, electricity, water, light, etc.). Characters who'll use magic start out with the ability to cast a sort of "base spell" from one of the flavors which is fairly weak and also fairly vague as to what it can do. So you could do a lot of things with this base spell but not very well. As they get more experienced with the spell, characters would learn stronger but more limited spells linked from the base spell, and as that got better at those "level one" spells they'd learn ever more limited and stronger "level two" spells that are linked from a level one spell. So you'd create branching chains of spells, the ones at the end would be incredibly powerful but very limited in their applications. Players don't actually pick the spells they learn, but rather they sort of guide their characters towards those spells by using the lower-level "parent" of the higher-level spells they want to learn. The really complicated part came in when I tried to decide how to keep track of when a character would be good enough at one spell to learn one of its "children" spells. I actually used two sets of points for each spell, one was how much "energy" it cost to cast (this was variable within a spell, you could extend the range or increase the damage, for example, by putting more energy into it) and the other was a measure of how much "practice" a character got by using that spell. It was really complicated, and it always seems to make more sense in my head than when I put it down in writing, so I won't explain it unless somebody really wants to hear it.

[CosmicHorror]

Well, the Grandia (i think it was grandia) games have a sort of magic exp sort of thing, could use a variation of that, gaining 1d4 (say) exp whenever you use a spell, and more for using it in creative ways. As for the variable energy points, a nice idea though it can cause problems with wording spells. Maybe use something similer to metamagics and extra points?

And I also like the point based magic system, Deadlands has a system like that only it's called Strain. And it alowes for much more customized magic usage, more like a D&D psion then any other D&D class.

And for spells, obviously we should make our own spells and not copy/"Borrow" from existing sources. I have some ideas for a psionic-like game (but then, that would be easy).

For system, d20 has shown that it works for most stuff, from fantasy (D&D) to modern (d20 Modern). And while I personally like the classic Deadlands system, d20 is both more well known, and easier to pick up.

As for time period, I like your idea of multiple time zones in one "world" (world being in this case, the game multiverse), and by having them be on seperate planets makes it so cross-overs won't spontaniously happen, but it would be hard for a GM to beleavbly get some medevil stuff in a sci-fi game, since there arn't a lot of space ships in medevil periods. So how about this: The time zones are split up into layers, not unlike a plane, that are close enough for flying creatures to pass through a boundry if they tried (or knew), but would make it hard for those without the means to accidentally cross a boarder. There could be exceptions, like a really strong reverse gravity maybe, or portals, or even ferries between time periods.

As for the class vs skill discussion, I really like the idea of not having a class, but then it gets hard to gauge a group's or indivudal's strength in a numeric value like CR. The way classic Deadlands works, using points called "Bounty Points", has no real class structure, we might be able to work off that to an extent, though maybe a chart to gauge character strength for purposes of challenges would be usefull, or some mathmatical equation. ie: a person's CR = (points spent-10)/2 or something (if that above equation looks familiar, it's the d20 equation for determining ability bonuses, only (Ability score-10)/2 for over 10)

As for flavour, if we use the multiple worlds idea, then we could go with any type of game for each world. Maybe the medevil fantasy world of "Multara" has a mostly dark overlay due to constant civil war, large amounts of evil creatures and dragons ruling most of the cities with iron claws. While the modern realistic world of "Ventos" has a very light and funny air about it due to a race of mischevious but good hearted spirits that infuse the world.

Current balance: $0.14

[Merkuri]

About the different-time-zones-on-different-planets idea, my idea was that the uni/multiverse was post-apocalyptic. The low-tech worlds were worlds that were hit particularly hard and their civilizations had to work up from scratch again. Therefore depending on how far back they were thrown on the technology scale and how much they forgot about their old tech would determine what period they were in now. The layers idea is cool too, though, but my only problem with it is that it seems too easy to go between periods/worlds. It shouldn't be impossible, but it should be extremely improbable. If people could cross over whenever they wanted then there would be "contamination" between the worlds and they probably would end up being more alike than different. Like the GURPS rules suggest, taking characters from one time period and plopping them down into another can be interesting, but it can also cause more problems than it's worth and should be used sparingly.

I kinda like the idea, however, of having a set of radically different worlds that people near the borders could cross regularly. If we could do it while keeping the worlds distinct it could give our game a very unique and fun flavor.

[EK - Shadow of Death]

I was always in favor of a low-magic world where magic users would be revered as masters of their art. Something like what we have in the real world with all the legends of superhuman feats in the past. Magic users would be the exception, rather than the rule, because otherwise they would simply be treated as just another type of weapon. We could potentially use super-powers to make heroes (or villains) only that much stronger, but I believe that super-powers, such as magic, should be taken to a different level and add another dimension to an already well-fleshed out character.

I think the best example that I can give is from kung fu movies. There are plenty of surprisingly reliable testimonies that account for people leaping buildings, blocking arrows, etc. Considered seriously, this is not at all impossible. Bruce Lee, for example, had an 8 foot vertical leap due to training, and he spent a good deal of his life pursuing a degree, running a business, and raising a family. I would not put it beyond a matial artist of Han China who had done nothing but train for 15-20 years to do the stuff which makes up kung fu movies that seem to defy gravity. There are accounts of people killing others merely by touch, or even through kiai. My suggestion is to take these up by another notch, but still keeping them subtle and as a side-effect of mastery of another discipline.

[EK - Shadow of Death]

Oops. I missed the point of this thread - just went with the flow of the posts.

1) I think D20 is a good idea, but that it should be modified to place more emphasis on character building and storytelling rather than on combat. If we're going to design this for the net, it might as well take advantage of the possibility that players can perfect their moves by editing posts and that they can write as much as they want.

2) I think we should not make any period-specific rules, but make a system that is open for any type of adventure. There are too many good ideas out there to be bound to a single system.

3) Dark theme would be nice, but again, adaptability would be great. We shouldn't make it too whimsical or too serious, but it should have the flexibility to encompass both, either, or any combination.

[CosmicHorror]

Well, if it's post-Apocalyptic, then sure, make it dark. It works nicly that way. And ya, I didn't mean for it to be too easy to cross boarders. Guess that came out wrong then what was in my head.

2) I think we should not make any period-specific rules, but make a system that is open for any type of adventure. There are too many good ideas out there to be bound to a single system.

Yes, I whole-heartedly agree. Luckly if we do use the d20 system, it's already there. If we go with a variation on it, then that's not too hard either.

1) I think D20 is a good idea, but that it should be modified to place more emphasis on character building and storytelling rather than on combat. If we're going to design this for the net, it might as well take advantage of the possibility that players can perfect their moves by editing posts and that they can write as much as they want.

Yes, maybe instead of numeric stats, we could have a more "fluid" stat system.

[Merkuri]

EK said:

2) I think we should not make any period-specific rules, but make a system that is open for any type of adventure. There are too many good ideas out there to be bound to a single system.

3) Dark theme would be nice, but again, adaptability would be great. We shouldn't make it too whimsical or too serious, but it should have the flexibility to encompass both, either, or any combination.

Yes, I agree that we should make the system flexible and able to work with any time period, but at the same time I think we should try and make up one world or setting to go with it, and that's what I was talking about when I asked for the time period and mood.

Just to throw this out there and see what everybody thinks, that post-apocalyptic world that I had come up with actually worked on the premise that the characters were different than everybody else (well, almost everybody). The gods had somewhat recently been slain (this is the source of the "apocalypse"), but their power was not destroyed, just dispersed. The characters are slowly inheriting the powers of the dead gods, giving them inhuman powers. People who are aware of the war (some folks on some of the more low-tech planets have forgotten) hated the gods because they tried to control humanity and take away its freedom, and so they hate the "godlings" (people who are inheriting their power) because they fear that they will rise up to become new gods and be as bad, or worse, than the last ones. This will probably force the characters to work in secret and hide their true natures. I mentioned it because it kinda goes with EK's idea of making magic special and very unusual.

The thing we have to worry about with that, though, is that if the characters can do something that nobody else can then they may become a lot more powerful than everybody else and it will be hard to challenge them. That's why I added the little everybody-hates-you part in my idea, to force the characters to have to think before they act and perhaps use their powers in more subtle and creative ways than they would have otherwise.

And I like the idea of having a "fluid" stat system and focusing more on roleplaying than combat, but at the same time part of me really likes the level-up part of RPGs. It's fun to watch your character slowly get better at something, and while you can do that in pure roleplay it makes it more fair and realistic (in a way) to actually have a system of numbers and stats that represent how powerful your character is. Plus, I have no idea exactly what a fluid stat system is or how we'd work with it. Anybody have an example of an already existing RPG that does something like this, or will we be trying something new?

[EK - Shadow of Death]

White Wolf has a good system, that we might be able to draw from. Its realistic, puts the weight on storytelling, and isn't setting-bound, but tends to have a bit too much focus on blatant use of super abilities (i.e. Vampire, Werewolf). Maybe something with more of a GURPS flavor to it?

[CosmicHorror]

Hmmm... about the godling idea, it is good, and an idea to get around the fact that most enemies wounldn't be as strong as the characters is maybe the energy of the gods is also forcing evolution in certian parts/worlds/races, thus, it would give the godlings a challange, while still making them feal special. (if they wern't already )

[Merkuri]

Why don't we take this from a different direction? Almost all RPGs have a sort of "theme" that they work on. D&D is classic Tolkein-esque fantasy. WoD is about vampires and werewolves and other mythical creatures in living in today's world. CoC is a horror novel come to life. I think we should decide on a "theme" and then work from there. I've mentioned my "godlings" theme. Does anybody else have an idea for a theme? I've heard a few "why don't we do it like this system" or "let's take elements from here" but nobody besides me has voiced any unique ideas on a theme (except maybe CH's layers idea). I think we should try to come up with a few more ideas for a theme and then pick one or two ideas from amongst those. I'm gonna start a new thread for this. Feel free to keep discussing magic and basic system elements here.

[Galadon]

Oh no another game, it's attracking me like a black hole, can't resist the pull of it's attraction. Damn their I go given in to temptation again.

I though it would be nice to have magic and Sci fi, like Shadow run, but an easier way to play the game.

[Hussar]

Just as a thought, how many people have read Tad William's series, Otherland. For those who haven't, the premise is basically this: There is a vast computer network of incredibly realistic similations. Each similation borders another, although similations cannot impinge on eachother. Each simulation contains a river which crosses from one border to the other, so that users may cross from one simulation to another simply by riding the river.

Games using this setting could revolve around users travelling from world to world, their "powers" simply manifestations of the operating system, or games could remain within one simulation, essentially, a closed system.

Just a thought.

[Merkuri]

Ooh, yeah, I like that Otherland idea, Hussar. Put it in the theme proposals thread.