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Post by Iron Bonny Shades on Sept 24, 2003 13:35:39 GMT -5
From the game perspective, it's actually kinda weaker then the shortbow, it's compact and can name at least one thief who used one as his main weapon (knuckles - king of the wall climbers).
Why is it they aren't on the character list of W.P.
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Post by Shadowdragon on Sept 24, 2003 14:15:01 GMT -5
Actually, light crossbows aren't all that compact. The only real difference between them and heavy ones is the draw strength, and thus the need for extra weight of drawing devices for the heavy one. They are a little smaller, but still about 2 feet long with a 2 foot spread on the bow section. Since most of the thieves' weapons allowed are easily concealable or weigh less than 4 lbs this rules out the light crossbow on both fronts. Cant conceal it and weighs nearly 2x what the other weapons do.
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Post by Iron Bonny Shades on Sept 24, 2003 14:18:22 GMT -5
yes, but a crossbow is a much more accurate weapon then a longbow, can be carried while loaded and has better range.
It's a good sniping weapon and I could see a thief using one.
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Post by Shadowdragon on Sept 24, 2003 14:29:05 GMT -5
OK. But sniping is more of an assassin thing, and the assassin thief kit allows the use of ANY weapon, so there you go.
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Post by Iron Bonny Shades on Sept 24, 2003 15:51:00 GMT -5
If a thief is shooting from the roof and needs range over rof, the light crossbow is the best choice for the job. 2. Assassin's aren't the only one's who snipe. Thieves are noctoriously known for fighting dirty, and the light crossbow would fit this to a tea. especially if you use the armor piercing rules in combat and tactics. 3. in the original dnd, the crossbow was available to a thief and also in the 3rd edition, making the 2nd edition ruling inconsistant. 4. so Knuckles can "waste them with his crossbow "
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Post by Shadowdragon on Sept 26, 2003 19:00:50 GMT -5
Once again, turning to the Thief's Handbook I can find a perfect thief kit for this adventurer of yours.
The Adventurer Thief. Ths is the thief you really want in your party. The only difference between this kit and the basic thief class as presented in the PHB is that they get to use ANY weapon (even pole-arms) They simply specialize in the thief skills that do more good for a group than for simple thievery.
;D
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Post by EK - Shadow of Death on Sept 27, 2003 1:38:06 GMT -5
Um... you can't carry a crossbow while loaded (not for long anyway), it damages the string. Plus, historically, crossbows were banned in some places because of their sheer lethality, while short bows were perfectly alright. You can't have a thief carrying around an unconcealable illegal weapon, right? If the thief still wants to use it, there's nothing stopping them from taking the adventurer or assassin kit to facilitate their use.
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Post by Draxy on Sept 30, 2003 10:33:31 GMT -5
Hand crossbows though, which are old weapons as well in many near eastern (and far european cultures by the 1300's) cultures can be small enough to carry as easily as a shortbow and were often used assassination and "thiefly" (in that any boob could learn how to use one much more quickly and easily than a short bow) weapons. In the close quarters of a city setting, where the thief shines, they are a far better choice than the shortbow anyway.
In the end, if you think that something is out of whack, change it for your game and just have it listed as an additional theifly weapon.
Draxy
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Post by EK - Shadow of Death on Sept 30, 2003 14:41:32 GMT -5
Was it really a weapon? I thought that hand crossbows were merely an innovation that TSR made up based on their drow weapons.
Other than that, yea - you've got all the strength you need there. They don't pack much of a punch, but that's not a thief's job.
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Post by CharleHu$$tle on Sept 30, 2003 14:45:01 GMT -5
i ALWAYS ALLOW MY PC's to use what ever weapon seems Right to fit
and a Small Crossbow fits a thief better
Hey I am getting attacked my a fighter
I point my crossbow in his face
Look mommy it's loaded and ready to shoot
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Post by Lord Swordhawk on Oct 2, 2003 2:21:05 GMT -5
The light crossbow is a weapon of war, made for soldiers and nobility, as I see it.
Not that the thief cannot use the light (or, for that matter, heavy) crossbow - he cannot have a weapon proficiency in it (unless you use the optional books, with kits and whatnot) but he can use it at a -3 penalty.
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agamoto
Soldier
Greetings and salutations one and all!!
Posts: 239
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Post by agamoto on Oct 5, 2003 20:33:06 GMT -5
If any one recalls the movie "The Three Musketiers"(sp), the piratey one had a verry small crossbow. I believe those did exist, however I am not absolutly certian.
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Post by Hussar on Oct 5, 2003 22:51:44 GMT -5
As far as concealability goes, a light crossbow is just as concealable and easy to carry as a short bow. Considering a short bow is about three or four feet long when strung, a crossbow is somewhat smaller. Also, you don't need those 20 to 24 inch or more arrows that you need with a short bow, a bolt is usually not much more that 12-16 inches.
As far as legality goes, well, that is really going to depend on the campaign. I've never seen an official campaign that has said anything about crossbows being illegal. Not one single publication. So, I don't think that people really care too much about it.
Also, a crossbow is FAR easier to learn to use than a bow. And easier to keep. I would think that it fits much better with a thief than a bow which takes months if not years to master, would.
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Post by Loki3 on Oct 5, 2003 22:58:36 GMT -5
Just a little (formal) clarification fo ya all.....
I have a degree in Medievil History..... and Shadowdragon is correct as far as the mechanics of a real light cross bow.
And yes they did have handheld portable crossbows circa around 1580 (dont quote me on the exact date here) that is some of the first documentaion about them available.
As far a game mechanics and reasoning, I would think that due to the large size I personally as a thief or assassin would not want to use one. As a thief it would hinder me too much, as an assassin it would be too hard to conceal,, thus hidering whatever mission I may be on.
But like Draxy said,.......... its your game...... and as Captain Pucard would say........
Make it so Numba one...........
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Post by Hussar on Oct 5, 2003 23:04:29 GMT -5
Loki, I don't understand. A light crossbow is smaller than a shortbow. And easier to use. The large size arguement doesn't hold.
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