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Post by Iron Bonny Shades on Sept 29, 2003 23:46:31 GMT -5
want to start a thread comparing the differences between 1st and 2nd edition.
What are the difference in rules, feel and anything else between these two systems.
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Post by Wyrmfire on Sept 30, 2003 0:31:05 GMT -5
People still play 2E ;D
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Post by Draxy on Sept 30, 2003 10:03:09 GMT -5
1E was a bit more simplistic and less broad as a result. Personally I still, after giving 3E a good long trial (over a year of it exclusively) I am still convinced that 2E was the crowning achievement of AD&D.
I'm dreadfully new to this board, but if someone will direct me to the correct forum to put it in, I've got a somewhat alternate magic system that is heavily based on one of the Players Option's systems that really (more than seven years of play testing proves it) levels out the problems with the 2E magic system. If anyone is interested in seeing it I'll re-post it in the correct forum here as soon as someone (pretty please) tells me which one that might be.
Draxy
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Post by Loki3 on Oct 1, 2003 15:37:54 GMT -5
Actually this is the very reason I like 1st Edition so much. The rules allowed the DM in my opinion to better manipulate and modify the rules. To better "mold" the game to his wants and needs, without the inevitable rules lawyer being able to quote pages and paragraphs.....hehehehe Also I happen to like the Combat Tables. I know some will call me nuts (actualy alot of people will) but I guess it all comes down to what ya grew up with and feel comfortable with. I have most of the 2nd Edition manuals, and have played it so I can honestly say I dont like it. One of the main differeances that I saw were they expanded and detailed the Humanoid class, and also the level restrictions that went along with them, they also did some expansion of Spells and also many other aspects of the gaem, but these were largley not a big deal to long time DM's like myself because people like me were playing for so long we allready did this on our own.  Some of the redundant and frankly stupid things they came up with in 2nd Edition. 1. Outlaw Mage, now come on..... do I need to say it here.... 2. Scavenger, another "original" PC option. Yes I know I am rambling, and yes I know my prejudices are bleeding like a wound from a long sword in the gut, but I just didnt feel it was well thought out, and I also didnt like the fact that they seemed to put out a manual for literally everything. I mean the thing I found that appealed to me about D&D WAS the fact that it forced you to alot of times make a rule that was needed, or to make your own table for something, or to THINK and to CREATE solutions to issues with the rules. I am of the simple opinion that you CAN make something TOO complete. And if you do that then it takes the flavor out of the game. But that is me little rant. But if ya are interested in chatting a tad more about this stop on by the forums here.... www.goblinsgames.com we are new and like this place lots of RPG chat we have. |
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Post by Ryhla on Oct 1, 2003 23:06:49 GMT -5
2E is a wonderful addition module to 1E. That's about how I feel about it. For the basic rules, I use 1E. But since there's not much difference in the 2 versions, I quite often use 2E modules and such and incorporate them in my settings and game.
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Post by Lord Swordhawk on Oct 2, 2003 2:43:53 GMT -5
1st ed was like spring - light, charming, with many promising buds and very inspiring.
2nd ed was like summer - evolved, complete, but no longer promising, and harder to be inspired.
and 3rd edition...
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Post by Ryhla on Oct 2, 2003 9:17:34 GMT -5
...yes?...
I've played 3rd a few times. Some things about it I like, but on the whole, I don't have the time, money, or abition to learn a whole new system.
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Post by DustinFireblade on Oct 2, 2003 11:55:00 GMT -5
Well I started with 1st Edition, moved up to 2nd Edition, then played Palladium(and still do) and recently have played 3rd Edition.
I only bothered to get the core books for all three, and have no desire to get any of the 3.5 books.
Can't say I really liked one over the other, I really prefer Palladium myself.
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Post by Draxy on Oct 2, 2003 14:27:15 GMT -5
Rules lawyers, even more than the only slightly more odious kinds that chase ambulances are, not should (in my game at least) but are, the first ones up against wall when new rifles are issued.  Actually, I never met a rules lawyer that I didn't like. Roasted to a light turn and with a apple larger than their heads slammed so deep in their gob that the only way to remove it is to break the jaws.  Now, that said, if you want to see what can be done, without a lot of trouble either, in 2nd edition, read my thread on an alternate magic system. 2nd edition AD&D provided an intensely adaptable framework and stayed away, for the most part, from the worst excesses (The Unearthed Arcana and the Oriental Adventures character classes: to whit, the Cavalier. Gods! What fools these mortals be!) of 1st edition. Of course it ALL, always comes down to what you like best. I started with 1st edition and almost through it away when the Unearthed Nightmare came out. That was before I learned to shoot rules lawyers, draw them, quarter them and feed them their own intestines on three day old toast. But then, thankfully, 2nd edition came out, and soon enhancements and finally, the crowning touchs, the Players and DM's Option Books. I feel back in love with AD&D and stayed there... even after 3rd edition and 3.5 edition. Draxy |
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Post by Lord Swordhawk on Oct 3, 2003 5:08:53 GMT -5
...yes?... I've played 3rd a few times. Some things about it I like, but on the whole, I don't have the time, money, or abition to learn a whole new system. Well, 3rd edition just isn't the same game, I feel. I've played it a little, but the whole "feel" of the game is different - and this is playing with a DM I played with for years in 2nd edition. Can't really put my finger on it, but it's ... different. So I'll be staying with 2nd edition and "my" house rules. |
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Post by Loki3 on Oct 3, 2003 9:08:32 GMT -5
I dont like Rules lawyers either, but I have never had a problem with them. But I will quote directly from the typed word of Gary Gygax Himslef.
THE FINAL WORD THEN, IS THE GAME. READ HOW AND WHY THE SYSTEM IS AS IT IS, FOLLOW THE PARAMETERS, AND THEN CUT PORTIONS AS NEEDED TO MAINTAIN EXCITEMENT............
USE THE WRITTEN MATERIAL AS YOUR FOUNDATION AND INSPIRATION, THEN EXPLORE THE CREATIVE POSSIBILITIES YOU HAVE IN YOUR OWN MIND TO MAKE YOUR GAME SOMETHING SPECIAL.
BEING A TRUE DM REQUIRES CLEVERNESS AND IMAGINATION WICH NO SET OF RULE BOOKS CAN BESTOW.
(source: DM's Guide (C) 1979)
That tells it all right there. And I can drop some e-mails from Gygax himself regarding this issue if anyone needs it.
Bottom line in D&D PERIOD. The rule books are designed to give the basic frame work for the DM's game, NOT the players it is the DM's game. The PC's play it. The DM should be fair and consistant. If he modifies a rule or table once he should use it through out the ENTIRE campaign.
CONSISTANCY.............. Good DM's have it, and Bad DM's do not.
In another forum a person said there DM was telling them how to act, and how to respond, and then got mad because they wouldnt do it. Thats a BAD DM.
Some say why not, IME THE DM after all. Well NO.... your the DM yes make the world fun, yes modify and tweak those things ya need to in order to make YOUR world more cohesive and more enjoyable in the end. BUT let the PC's react as they will to the sitautions, and let them interact with the situations as they will.
A good DM allows this, all others arent DM's... they are just people with AD&D books and some paper.
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Post by Draxy on Oct 3, 2003 19:05:33 GMT -5
Very true Loki, the DM is the key ingredient, BUT
There is a definitive difference based on the system itself, or there would only be one. They (system differences) are too substantial to simply ignore. Flexibility, true flexibility, is something that 2nd E was just better at producing, especially while maintaining balance, than 1st E was or than 3rd E, in it's present form, could ever hope to be.
Draxy
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Post by Kerap on Oct 3, 2003 19:21:50 GMT -5
Well, I guess I have to weigh in with my thoughts also. I too, feel that 1E was simpler than 2E. And then all of those 2E supplements were thrown out there, tempting your already too stretched budget. But some of the changes were welcome ones - proficiencies for weapons and non-weapons. Some kits were nice, others, ugh. The addition of so many rules tended to bog the game down, while people stopped to look something obscure up in Supplement 3.14159
Then 3E came out and the game changed quite a bit. Some changes are cool - many encourage munchkinism. I find someone wanting to run some monster PC, Prestige class, every feat and skill, and stats 30+. And they don't understand the game. To many 3Eers, it's all about Uberism now. Sad.
I enjoy playing all editions though. ;D
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Post by Kaffekat on Oct 3, 2003 21:52:47 GMT -5
Agrees emphatically with Loki3, Lord Swordhawk and Rhyla.....
*cough* And- I still play / run 1st Ed..... (and judging by what has been said here I am not alone) ;D
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Post by Loki3 on Oct 3, 2003 23:14:26 GMT -5
Draxy,.... I just cant agree with that, I will say that yes 2E did clear up in the written word (the rule) what 1E let lack, but as I said before........ All 2E did for me and alot of other experienced DM's was put in a final written form what we have allready done to one stretch or another. No offense to those DM's and Players that Like 2E, 3E, or 3.5 or others..... its just that as a long time player (since 1977) and as someone that I have to admit when 2E came out was very glad to see it and VORACIOUSLY bought all manuals I could lay my hands on......... I just like 1st Edition more. (personal preference) I will say that as far as clarity and completeness of rules 2E does have a jump, however IMHO that is,...... 1E AD&D is the original. Will allways be the original, and I guess it falls to some inate primal urge to protect ones young. I still have EVERY PC I have ever made, and also every folder with every campaign, and Adventure I have made, and ran across PC's as a DM. I just cant let my baby leave home..... hehehehehe |
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