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Post by Loki3 on Oct 7, 2003 9:50:55 GMT -5
OK I saw this in another topic mentioned and I gotta stir the pot here.
Why cant an Assassin be a Paladin. If you gonna say he can or cant please back up your opinion or theory with an explanation.
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Post by TinkerDragoon on Oct 7, 2003 13:18:21 GMT -5
If you're talking about Dual Classing, it's because the required alignments of the two classes are mutually exclusive. However there is no reason why someone whose alignment has changed sufficiently cannot switch from one class to the other, i.e. a fallen paladin becoming an assassin or a reformed assassin becoming a paladin. Logically, the ex-paladin's powers should be inaccessible because the deity that granted them would no longer do so (though I don't recall 1e or 2e having any actual rule about this), and similarly the ex-assassin would be loathe to use his old skills and knowledge. Of course if you're not a true paladin at all but some sort of evil anti-paladin there's no problem, and the two classes are quite compatible.
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agamoto
Soldier
Greetings and salutations one and all!!
Posts: 239
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Post by agamoto on Oct 7, 2003 14:03:13 GMT -5
PLEASE, I beg of you, Let's NOT!!!! start this one again. I think it was more than well hashed out over at PADND.
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Post by Loki3 on Oct 7, 2003 14:21:49 GMT -5
No I am talking about lets call it an........
Anti-Paladin
An Evil Paladin. Now I know what the book sais about the Paladin class, however IMHO it still could be possible.
Whats everyones opinion.
And Agamoto.............. hehehe hey it hasnt been hashed out here, and ya have to admit it seems to be a subject with alot of interest and opinion.
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agamoto
Soldier
Greetings and salutations one and all!!
Posts: 239
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Post by agamoto on Oct 7, 2003 14:25:54 GMT -5
My appologies, but the "Palassissin" debate went into 45 or more pages of bickering and repetition. If you are refering to an Anti-Paladin then thats different.
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Post by Loki3 on Oct 7, 2003 14:30:35 GMT -5
And I AM Talking about what could be construed as a Palasissin
In theory there could be an evil Diety or Being that would Grant the anti Paldin his powers..... albiet the powers would probually be the same however with an evil twist.
In other words. Per 1st Edition AD&D a Paladin get s the follwowing.
Detect Evil up to 60' Make ST at +2 Immunity to all forms of Disease Ability to Lay on Hands Cure disease. Protection from evil. 1" radius
Plus some other goodies that are granted at certain levels, and I havent gotten into the fine details I know.
Now swing this.
An Anti-Paladin or Pallasassin
Detect Good up to 60' All ST at +2 Immunity from Disease Ability to instead lay hands, maybe exude evil... 10' radius. Cause disease....... in limited form Victim gets ST of course. Protection from good with a standard ST
Plus other things granted per level, or granted if they do a deed or such for there Diety.
In my opinion this "could" be possible. Again in my opinion this is only a synopsis or rough idea of what "COULD BE"
Whats your opinion.
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Post by EK - Shadow of Death on Oct 7, 2003 16:08:10 GMT -5
This thing's started again, hmm? Maybe we should get this moved to the Wyrm's Den if it gets philosophical... like I'm going to do now...
An assassin is merely a hired killer. A person crawling through the pipes and shooting a poison dart into the throat of a target while he sleeps is just as much an assassin as a person who walks up to their target and challenges them to a duel. The word "assassination" refers to killing high level people - not just the common man. The stereotype assassin is clearly the former, but I see absolutely no reason why a paladin can't be the latter (as a matter of fact, they do that all the time). Paladins are killers, the stereotypical assassins are killers. The only difference is that the code that paladins follow is different than that of the stereotypical assassin.
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Post by Loki3 on Oct 7, 2003 16:46:37 GMT -5
Yes, But that code is based off of the requirements and code of conduct and honor that there Lawful Good Diety sets forth. So if you have an evil Diety and the abilities and the Code is swapped for an evil code, and part of that code is for the Evil Paladin to kill others, or via mission, or Crusade wise to do the same things a straight PC assassin does, then you have an evil Paladin that is also an Assassin, or one that makes a living killing people for hire. ie: Assassin. Just some further insight into me thinking. And this doesnt belong in the Wyrms Den, this belongs here in the AD&D area. I am talking AD&D here, and it is pertenant to the topic area.
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Post by Hussar on Oct 8, 2003 8:35:19 GMT -5
Inner Gorilla nods in agreement. Keeping it here is much better.
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Post by Draxy on Oct 8, 2003 11:36:52 GMT -5
The straight company line is the reason I also agree with, to whit: a Paladin is a very specific thing, a champion unblemished, a peak to strive for but seldom attained, an epitimal representation of a specific ethoi (that of Lawful Good) in action.
Basicly, if it isn't those things, it isn't a Paladin.
You can call the thing that is an Assassin and a Paladin simultaneously "a four footed duck that lays diamond eggs" as accurately and correctly as you can call it a Paladin. It's a ridiculous thing that would only exist in the mind of the warped*.
Draxy
*Not to mention the chowder head in the PAD&D 2E forum who ran almost 500 posts of self congratulatory idiocy concerning it.
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Post by Minion on Oct 9, 2003 7:53:11 GMT -5
Do we really wanna open up this mother of all debates again? I agree with TinkerDragon if its a dual-class. I did design a Palassassin class for my own campaign, and it runs without a hitch *listens to groans, outcries of rage, and applause all at once, and bows*
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Post by Ryhla on Oct 11, 2003 23:08:35 GMT -5
*Takes double-barrelled shotgun and shoots thread in an attempt to kill it*
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Post by Dr. Doom III on Oct 12, 2003 1:41:32 GMT -5
OK I saw this in another topic mentioned and I gotta stir the pot here. Why cant an Assassin be a Paladin. If you gonna say he can or cant please back up your opinion or theory with an explanation. Assassins are murders for hire and Paladins are good guys.
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Post by EK - Shadow of Death on Oct 13, 2003 13:48:02 GMT -5
Murder is merely dependent on mindset. A paladin killing an orc is murder, just as much as him killing a peasant. Situations determine legitimacy. If the peasant was a mass murderer or the orc was a diplomatic envoy, does that make either right? What if the paladin only chose to murder things that were evil. Then couldn't he be hired to assassinate an evil lord, etc?
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Post by DustinFireblade on Oct 13, 2003 13:55:03 GMT -5
This was pretty much done many many years in a Dragon Magazine. It was simply called a Anti-Paladin and had a number of Assasin-like powers/abilities. This was 1st Edition rules.
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