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Post by EK - Shadow of Death on Oct 10, 2003 22:35:29 GMT -5
Everyone's favorite generic 1st level spell. The first real chance a mage can do some serious damage without having to rely on his crap THAC0. Its been used against all manner of orcs, goblins, and dragons and is so versatile that the tarrasque is made even more fearsome by being immune to it. However...
WHAT IS IT?? Is it a little ball of force that's similar to a punch? Is it a bunch of magic squashed together and thrown at someone? And if so, how does it damage something? And what's the deal about it not being able to affect inanimate objects? Does that mean that if a character (or golem, etc) stands REALLY still, that they're immune?
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Post by Draxy on Oct 11, 2003 3:28:04 GMT -5
The thing that seems to interact with the Magic Missile, as far as targeting goes, is sentience. Not sapience, just sentience.
Even zombies and skeletons and other such automata are self aware, sentient, if not sapient; so are plants and arguably, any robotic entity that reacts to it's enviroment. the idea seems to be that sentience, self awareness, creates the ability to be effected by magic as an outside source. This would explain it not effecting inanimate objects.
It may also be the mage that limits it. The idea there being that the mage "knows" that it will effect certain things and not others, so it does.
The third idea is the collective unconscious of sapient beings shapes the abilities and limitations of all magic and sets the rules for how it works.
Take your pick, they all seem to work as game explanations.
Draxy
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Post by Loki3 on Oct 11, 2003 10:29:08 GMT -5
Well to clarify............
There is no THACO (thank God) in AD&D heheheheh
But at any rate.
The magic missle im me humble opinion, and as I have allways seen it is a arrow shaped force of magical energy. As far as not effecting inaminate objects per 1st Edition rules the spell doesnt prohibit PER DESCRIPTION it effecting inaminate objects.
I have seen some illustrations in several manuals of mages using it, and in every one I have seen it is little arrows of glowing force, or maybe they are arrrows glowing with magic.....hehehe Interpretation I guess is the key.
But, I allways allowed it in my 1st edition games to effect objects, as an example in my games a standard wooden door, with iron reenforced nading has 10 hit points. A locked door of the same type 12 hit points and a locked steel door has 50 hit points.
Now as far as 2nd edition I will defer it to other with more knowledge than I.
I was merely pointing out for those readers that do 1st edition.
;D
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Post by Shadowdragon on Oct 11, 2003 17:36:09 GMT -5
I've always viewed this inanimate objects bit as the fact that the missile do no physical damage. They attack the life force of the object, and yes, even undead have a life force that animates them, albeit a weaker one (which is why when you create a zombie out of a 15th level fighter it still only has 2 hit dice) Locks, doors, non cybernetic robots and verious other objects with no life force (ie. the dead wood of a door, metal, gemstones) can not be affected by the spell.
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Post by Shadowdragon on Oct 11, 2003 17:39:51 GMT -5
BTW Loki3. The 1st ed. PHB may not say anything about inanimate objects and the magic missile spell. BUT the spell's Area Of Effect clearly states that the spell affects one or more CREATURES in a 10 square foot area. Last I looked (except for some very rare instances) doors and locks are not CREATURES, but are instead THINGS
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Post by Shadowdragon on Oct 11, 2003 17:44:30 GMT -5
Which reminds me of one of the first 1e games I ever played. There was a high level mage in our group. He constantly filled all his first level slots with Magic Missile spells. He'd use one up on every chest we encountered (because of a bad experience with a mimic). If the spell did damage it wasn't a chest and the mimic would lose its special surprise attack. If no damage was caused the thief could "safely" check for traps.
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Post by Loki3 on Oct 11, 2003 22:37:49 GMT -5
Yes 1st Edition PHB does state that indeed under the area of effect, however since in the actual description it doesnt really give a clear explanation I allways allowed it in my games as I described.
But again as AD&D is famous for each DM allows things that fit there gamers, and given situation.
But good catch on the area of effect ;D
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Post by Shura on Oct 12, 2003 9:59:39 GMT -5
i agree that the spell is specifically designed to harm living objects, it not a generic force but one that targets the life force of others. That is why it 'homes in' on creatures that you target.
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Post by EK - Shadow of Death on Oct 13, 2003 13:45:49 GMT -5
So what about golems? With the exception of the flesh golem, the golems are animated by magic, and don't have a life force, so to speak. You can still whack them, no? I don't know about the undead - I would think that they have the antithesis of a life force in them, as opposed to lifeforce itself (which is why wraiths absorb it).  Please clarify |
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Post by Loki3 on Oct 13, 2003 18:51:49 GMT -5
I guess it boils down to one simple answer.
As the DM of YOUR game make the game YOUR way.
If you want Magic Missles to effect doors, or Golems the by all means do so.
Simple as that. ;D
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Post by Draxy on Oct 14, 2003 3:58:47 GMT -5
Hi Eldritch Knight
What friend Loki was doing was forgetting (or ignoring the fact) that 2nd edition AD&D is still AD&D. He was refering to the first edition game. The THAC0 concept was still there but hadn't been given any name other than "combat matrix for class such and such". THAC0, of course, is just a common sense contraction of this longer and less concise 1st edition manner of talking about combat ability working from, a common basis.
Now, as to the points that you so correctly adress:
Draxy
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Post by Loki3 on Oct 14, 2003 10:58:15 GMT -5
Sorry Draxy I shoulda clarified it better ya got me there.  And I wasnt ignoring it, I merely forgot about it. I really havent done alot with 2nd edition...... maybe I should open the old manuals and try a game or two or three of it......... Broaden me horizens as one may say. So I dont put me foot in me big mouth again. ;D |
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Post by Draxy on Oct 15, 2003 3:24:27 GMT -5
 I had a feeling that might have been it Loki. Yes, give in to your need, your desires, your perverse intrests. Host a few games of it... Then your journey to the dark side will be complete! Mmwhahahahaha!  Draxy
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Post by ShonenSenshiDave on Oct 17, 2003 13:41:41 GMT -5
a magic missle is basically a bolt of pure magical energy, sometimes referred to as an "eldrich bolt". it may take differing forms depending on the caster, but its basic make-up is just a bolt of pure magic.
it does appear that it requires some sort of "life force" to have an effect; or at the very least, some sort of magical energies animating the target, which surround the target creature which the missle is reacting with.
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Post by EK - Shadow of Death on Oct 27, 2003 10:47:47 GMT -5
That sounds about right (and is essentially what I had thought), but is that intelligent speculation or is that from a published source?
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