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Post by Hussar on Nov 18, 2003 23:51:51 GMT -5
This is what started this, from Draxy,
Ok, I do not want to getting into a pissing contest between 2e and 3e, but this is plainly wrong. 3e has outlined the alignments perfectly clearly. To illustrate, let us look at what the books ACTUALLY say, instead of misquoting:
And, on the previous page, we have a discussion of Lawful:
Now, how can they possibly be more clear and exact. A druid who lives far from civilization but still acts in a consistent, orderly manner is LN. His grove is laid out in exacting care, his forest is tended down to the smallest detail with long term, far reaching plans for the future. Bingo, Lawful Neutral without a society to speak of and entirely based on a personal code.
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Post by Hussar on Nov 19, 2003 2:12:42 GMT -5
In the interests of fairness, here is the quote from the 2e PHB:
Consider the first line. Order and organization are of paramount importance. Sounds like it includes a person code of behavior to me. Granted, the examples are wider, and from a broader base, but the first line hardly precludes someone who has a personal fixation on order and organization from being Lawful Neutral.
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Post by Hussar on Nov 19, 2003 2:38:43 GMT -5
Here's an excellent way of putting it, regardless of edition: Lawful Neutral Lawful Neutral people love structure like nothing else. To them having an ordered system for organizing people, things, and ideas is a thousand more times important than the people, things, and ideas themselves. Lawful Neutral people live highly disciplines lives. They wake at the same time, they sleep at the same times and they perform all of the same activities at the same time in the day. The more predictable and routine their lives are, the happier they are. They are great fun at parties. So, why would a Lawful Neutral person join an adventuring party? Order. They passionately believe that if the world would just get all of it’s ducks in a row, everything will be SO much better. They will accompany a party if the goal of it’s mission is to impose Order on a Chaotic situation, organization, or people. They will also join if the money, magic, and power gained in adventuring will aid them in their quest to promote Order. Lawful Neutral people will work well in a party, provided that the party can tolerate their inflexibility. Lawful Neutral people will routinely come into conflict with Chaotic people for not toeing the line. And be sure to get the Lawful Neutral person to write the party contracts, not the Lawful Evil guy. Vulcans can be good examples of Lawful Neutral people, as well as judges, accountants, and Marines. The basic rules of Lawful Neutral are: 1) Order and Discipline are guiding principles for life. 2) The needs of society trump that of any individual. 3) The head should rule and control the heart. 4) Good and Evil must be balanced to maintain the universal order. 5) Only worry about “Me and Mine” From www.dungeonmastersguild.com/lawful_neutral.htm |
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Post by Merkuri on Nov 19, 2003 9:31:52 GMT -5
Agreed.
I usually scrap what the books say about alignment and go with "common sense," taking each part of the alignment by itself. And it's always good to keep in mind that its possible for two people of the same alignment to have radically different personalities. Otherwise, D&D (and life) would be pretty boring.
A lawful person favors law and order. It makes sense that he'd do his best to follow the laws of the kindgom he lives in, but it also makes sense that he would follow his own personal code. I would think that if a lawful person was passing through a country that had radically different laws and customs than his native country, he might choose to disobey those laws in favor of his native code. Of course, he might not, it depends on other factors.
And a neutral person (on the G-E scale) is neutral towards morality, either because he doesn't care or he believes in a balance. This is pretty self-explanatory, if you ask me.
So a lawful neutral person could obey a personal code and nothing else. He also could obey the laws of the land he's in to the letter, no matter what they say. A random lawful neutral person would probably be more likely to obey the law of the land than a personal code, since personal codes usually have moral reasons behind them and a LN doesn't care about morality. If you ask me, however, and throw out the book, I'd think that followers of the Balance (with a capital B) would make excellent LNs. Neutral because they believe in balance, of course, and lawful because they religiously follow this balance and most if not all of their actions are taken with the balance in mind. If you ask me, that's a pretty strict personal code, and a personal code implies lawful. Of course, this is all my opinion.
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Post by Nikolai Plogojowitz on Jul 30, 2004 15:37:07 GMT -5
ugh man I hate lawful PCs...i dont like my character to be dictated by one specific thing. I go with CG or CN. live chaotic or dont live at all
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Post by ILikeWoodchucks on Feb 12, 2005 1:28:00 GMT -5
I'm not saying it's a good excuse to be a bastard, but sometimes being lawful actually helps you get away with things. For instance, being a jerk. If you haven't broken any laws, and you're not known for doing as such, what's anyone going to do about it? On the other hand, if you're known for drunk and disorderly, you're more likely to suffer some town guard wrath.
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Post by Hussar on Feb 15, 2005 22:57:01 GMT -5
Heh, you wanna see Lawful Neutral, check out Korbach in the Urdoth campaign in the online games section. Now THERE'S lawful neutral.
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