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Post by Hussar on Jul 2, 2004 10:10:39 GMT -5
Heh, that's quite the wish list. Good job.
A few quick thoughts. For the spell storing weapons, simply get one of your two mages to place the spell inside. It doesn't have to be set when the weapon is made. That way you don't have to pay for multiple castings of different spells.
As far as dividing up the marines, I'm not sure how well that would work. Two things become somewhat problematic. Firstly, you're hiring 120 people (or so), which means that, overall, they are not going to have any ability bonuses. They are just going to average eachother out. Secondly, and this is just my personal opinion, but, you want EVERYONE to have missile weapons. I don't care which ones, but a melee warrior on a ship is about as useful as nothing.
Grappling ballista bolts don't work. Ships in this era weigh several hundred tons. Your own ship, for example, weight 420 tons. The cog was 200ish tons. No rope is going to hold two moving vessels in a grapple. Nor will the gunwales take the strain. Nor will whatever you tie the rope to take the strain, even if the rope didn't break. To grapple an enemy ship, you have to match speeds with it and come alongside. Generally this is done by destroying the enemy's sails so that he can't move. In other words, to take an enemy vessel, you have to beat the crap out of it first. Stop pussyfooting around and kick some butt.
Adding arrow slits to the sides of the ship shouldn't be too much of a problem. Simply placing large sheets of wood in slots would do that. That wouldn't be difficult to manage.
The netting on the other hand, I'm not sure if it would work. To be strong enough to slow down or affect missile fire, it would likely get in the way of the sails and rigging. Good idea though. Let me do some checking. I'm really not sure if this would work or not.
As far as expert hirelings, give me some time to prepare things. Kelly has been promoted in his church, so gathering some priests might actually be possible. I'll see what I can come up with.
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Post by shadowbane on Jul 2, 2004 11:07:29 GMT -5
Comment:
I wasn't really meaning to totally grapple a ship not a big one anyway, but if it was it hit a softer target with line attached it would sweep back acrodss the deck as the ships moved away threatening the ebnemy crew (as in the film men of honor? i think thats what it was called), a rope snapping taught across an enemy deck even if ether the bolt snapped or the rope broke would send them scattering as when it snaps taught anyone in its way would get mangled. When a ship is imobilized it could be used to secure and draw in an enemy vessel if still at a little range. Anouther idea could be to try to grapple mastheads and banisters ripping a section off the ship as they pull away. It was jusat an idea anyway.
And with the marines i did say stay as they are currently armed, eg the melee marines would still be armed with light crossbows, but half the marines would be armed with the deadlier longer range heavy crossbows.
The netting idea i borrowed from anouther seabased dnd game, they worked as +1 to ac or saves from scattershot and catapults in that game. and i was suggesting only small patches as netting a whole ship would be impractical, just the towers mainly.
I got the idea for the protected sides from old viking ships they lined their banisters with sheilds for extra protection, a cheap and effective solution. add arrow slis to that and you have something simular to a cerrilation on a castle wall.
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extra note
Fire retardent chemicals, could this ship be painted in some for of alchemical paint that resists fire, even if it has to be renewed ever so often? fire resist 1 or 2 on ths ship would greatly reduce the risk and damage from shipboard fires. and shouldn't be too hard to apply to the timbers.
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Post by Kelly on Jul 2, 2004 13:05:22 GMT -5
1. There is a magic item called something like "a wand of flame extinguishment." I am not sure if it is from arms and equipment guide or what. It would be a nice little fire extinguisher to have on board.
2. I can cast continual flame on arrows, but there is a material component cost. 50 GP of materials I believe.
3. The nets should be flame retardant. If not, they could be set on fire and drop on the people below. When I was in college, a girl in the dorms had a net full of stuff above her bed. Her room caught on fire and the burning net dropped on her doing substantial damage before she could free herself. The net may work, but this possibility of fire should be addressed.
4. We should not invest a ton of money in weapons to burn other ships. For one, that prevents us from capturing cargo. Also, quarter is expected at sea by privateers if possible. So we should rarely burn a ship to the waterline and kill its inhabitants. Obvious exceptions are evil monster crews and pirate crews, etc. However I do favor getting or making some of these types of weapons.
5. We should consider trying to recruit marines with some sailing skills. On the last adventure, we lost some crew and barely had enough to sail two ships. If some of the marines had this skill, they could fill in as crew in emergencies.
6. If we have room, it would be nice to keep a few ordinary ballistae. Their rate of fire is much quicker than the new improved ballistae. However, I am not sure if we have the room.
DM what is the status on room on deck once we add the new ballistae? I favor keeping the couple of existing catapults if possible. Is there room for these catapults? Is there room for a few ordinary ballistae as well? After the new ballistae were installed, how many ordinary ballistae could we sell that we no longer need? How much money would this sale of the unneeded ballistae bring into the ship's fund? How will the new weapons change our requirements for seige engineers on board (now how many are needed)?
By the way, I agree with Hussar. Very good ideas.
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Post by shadowbane on Jul 2, 2004 15:10:22 GMT -5
The fireball arrows would only be used sparingly only when we needed too, eg vs dragons and swarms of monsters, but i was thinking we may need a BIG one shot attack, I was thinking iinvesting in a few really heavy duty arrows or balista rounds could be useful.
Could a pair of heavy crossbows of disatance be aquired to deliver these special rounds, as i noticed our fighters seemed at a loss for what to do in ranged combat. We could arm them with these special crossbows and let them have fun destroyoing the rigging on the enemy vessel with enspelled bolts.
potions of healing. These could be useful for marine sargents wounded in battle and are fairly inexpensive.
a second or third wand of cure light wounds could also come in handy for getting the marines battle ready after a fight.
Also some of the simple enspelled arrows couyld be invaluble
eg bolts with sleep spells: (i think you get this idea) bolts with grease spells if targetted at the enemy deck.
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Post by Hussar on Jul 3, 2004 2:07:01 GMT -5
The improved ballistae have the same rate of fire as normal ballistae. 2 shots/1 minute round. This supersedes the rate of fire in the DMG (which is retarded anyway)
Ballistae have been installed belowdecks in gun ports, similar to cannons. It makes more sense that way. You have enough room for 4 ballista per broadside. Catapults obviously have to be placed on the main deck. You could add catapults to the main deck as well, but it would make boarding extremely difficult. There simply isn't room.
As far as siege engineers, nothing has changed. One engineer per ballistae, heavy catapult requires a full crew of 5. (BTW, I am NOT using the 3.5 rules for siege weapons. They are bloody rediculous. A 4 man crew can fire a heavy catapult in 12 seconds (every other round in other words) . Not a bloody chance. You are not getting gatling gun catapults.
Taking a look through some stuff, I see that hiring 3rd level wizies will run you about 600 gp each. The clerics will likely be the same. Fighters and other brute types, will depend, but at 5th level, figure around 500 gp each. Note that's in addition to feeding and shares. That money is to be payed up front. Note, if you are really intent on this, you should perhaps speak with the Guild of Shadows (wizards guild of Mithril) and somebody at Kelly's church. Not sure who yet. If you really are keen on this, I'll set something up for Wednesday.
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Post by Hussar on Jul 3, 2004 8:47:12 GMT -5
Guys, here something that might give you a better idea of what can and cannot be added to the ship. Obviously, you can't add too many catapults onto the deck, since it would foul the rigging. I'd say 1 maybe 2 heavy catapults (per broadside obviously). If you look at this pic, you can see the cannons out the ports in the fore and aft castles. Note, you do not have cannons, you have ballistae, but the effect is the same. I would assume that catapults would be placed on the main deck with your fore and aft ballistae on top of the castles. Note, these castles are not the archer castles you have added later. Those would be sticking up above the fore and aft.
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Post by Hussar on Jul 6, 2004 2:30:55 GMT -5
Ok, did a little hunting regarding the grapple thing. Took stats from a Whaling site and found this from 1812:
Throwing a 40 pound weight with a ballista is just not going to happen. At least, not for any significant range. Remember, 90% of ship combat is going to occur on the 1=100 foot range, so, even with a harpoon thrower like this, you're only good for two hexes. It's a way cool idea and I did think about it. But, it's not going to come up very much IMO. By the time you have closed to a range close enough to use this, either you or the enemy will likely have surrendered or been rendered immobile anyway.
I have read accounts of doing this. My thinking is that it was done from EXTREMELY close range. Most of your fighting won't happen at that range. You're better off with beating the crap out of your opponent first. Heh.
Note, there are magical ballista bolts available. Hunt through the posts and you'll find prices. If not, I'll post them later.
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Post by shadowbane on Jul 7, 2004 14:58:40 GMT -5
Kelly take over for being quartermaster today, I'm sorry i was away i just recovered from XP hell, it ate my drivers when i reinsatalled and i had to struggle to get it working when their was no signal going to the monitor.
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Post by Hussar on Jul 8, 2004 7:23:19 GMT -5
Because this thread has fallen prey to the thread gremlin, I'll open another thread for equipment. Post there what you are carrying on the Tally.
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