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Post by Wyrmfire on Oct 27, 2003 10:41:04 GMT -5
Wyrmy, not to be me, but well, duhh. Putting the GDP of pretty much any country on a list measuring personal wealth and I HOPE you come up pretty damn high. The frightening thing is, when you put the GDP of many countries on the list, it doesn't come out number one. That means that there are INDIVIDUALS out there who have a higher income than an entire NATION. And, take two guesses where those individuals live. Methinks you missed the deep inner message here. All I was saying is that you canNOT say that Canada is justified in being stingy just because they happen to share a border with the US. And, to answer your question, I would bet a fair portion live in Switzerland, or at least do all their finances there.
Also, it is true that the US gives more in straight dollar amounts than any other country. I don't deny that. It's 100% true. However, as a percentage of GDP, the USA donates dead last of ANY industrialized nation in the world. Number 26 I believe. Denmark gives more as a percentage of GDP. Also, let us not forget that 66%, two thirds of ALL US foreign aid goes to two countries. That's right. TWO. Israel and Pakistan. Last time I checked, no one was starving to death in Israel. Guess what that aid money buys. Can we spell tanks boys and girls?True, many places give more as a portion of GDP, but keep in mind, we are financing two things that they are not. 1) The most effective military on the planet, possibly more so than every other nation combined. 2) A national debt. A big one. Obviously, whether a large army is a good idea is one of those cans of worms we don't want to open, but let's just categorize it under "necessary expenses" for now. Take out that and our interest payments, plus normal education/welfare/infrastructure expenses that every government is obligated to provide. Not a whole friggin lot left after that. Oh, and about Israel- we really have a moral obligation to keep them from being blown up, since we helped put them there in the first place. Is being a victim of terrorism any worse than starving to death?
Take a look at the statistics. A quick google search will make them available to you. The Americans only recently became the most giving nation in straight dollar terms about five years ago, after Japan had suffered 10 straight years of recession. True, but we get partial credit here because we are largely responsible for Japan's current government. If it weren't for the aforementioned military that we spend so much on, Japan would still be a dictatorship (the meiji era, correct? My Japanese history is a bit fuzzy 'round the edges)
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Post by Draxy on Oct 27, 2003 11:00:46 GMT -5
That also means that japan out gave us for 10 years with only 43% of our population in the US. That's all too telling a fact as well. It means that they were giving almost two and a half times as much per capita.
That is an embarassement.
Draxy
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Post by Wyrmfire on Oct 27, 2003 11:32:18 GMT -5
Oops, Draxy, managed to miss your other post entirely (and I get to be the forst person to use the new smileys!) A couple things: you say that we "let our own people suffer" in ways that poorer countries "wouldn't consider allowing." With all due respect, WTF? Look at Libya and tell me that people in America with only one TV set are that badly off. The most obese economic bracket in America is below the poverty line, and over half own their own house. I don't think that there are "inhumane" conditions running rampant. You did rather hit the nail on the head, though, saying that Americans give less on an individual basis because they think that people should be able to hack it on their own. That is really because the US is one of the few places on Earth where that is almost true.
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Post by CharleHu$$tle on Oct 27, 2003 13:10:27 GMT -5
Eldritch Knight I do not know why i was Singled out in that one. I have no problem of have commented on others Cultures Povitry. But I am Glad that your Family lives nicely. As for driving on a crapy road making your a good driver. LOL that is funny
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Post by EK - Shadow of Death on Oct 27, 2003 18:39:09 GMT -5
Charle: I only singled you out for the first sentence because you asked (possibly rhetorically) if I had ever been to India. Just wanted to state the basis of my claim specifically.
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Post by CharleHu$$tle on Oct 27, 2003 18:41:13 GMT -5
Charle: I only singled you out for the first sentence because you asked (possibly rhetorically) if I had ever been to India. Just wanted to state the basis of my claim specifically. OH well Slap me with a dead Ass Monkey. Cool. Have fun man.
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Post by Draxy on Oct 28, 2003 4:14:05 GMT -5
Hi Wyrmfire,
You must lead a very sheltered life. Only one TV? I had people coming into my outreach program that hadn't eaten in days, sometimes longer, in a country where we throw away more eatable food in a day than they consume in some countires of nearly our population size in three days.
Very nearly true that you have to want to not succeed here to be homeless and starving? Wake up young man. The homeless army in this country isn't, even in large part, comprised of people that are lazy or who have no drive or ambition.
I worked with these people on a daily basis and there are college grads, former professionals from nearly every field of endevour and hard working people from every walk of life that are now homeless and dying.
It doesn't even take the person themself EVER being at fault. You can be effectively wiped out by a family tragedy. Even with the best insurance I could lay my hands on, when my second wife's health problems were at their worst we were VERY soon out of coverage because the company that insured us filed for chapter eleven protection from creditors. If I hadn't owned my own house outright and hadn't had a hell of alot of money in the bank, I WOULD HAVE BEEN ONE OF THE HOMELESS!
Not everyone is as lucky as I was. People DO still starve to death in this country and MANY still freeze to death every winter, two miles away from fat bottomed and utterly selfish morons who wouldn't give them a can of SPAM that's been sitting in their cabinet for years and that they wouldn't eat unless you put a gun to their head to a starving man that they passed on the street, or a old winter coat that they wouldn't be caught dead in because of the oil stain on the sleeve to a pregnant woman shuddering with the cold who will miscarry later on that night and die of blood loss in the process because of her poor bodies reaction to the cold.
I've seen children, in this incredibly rich country of ours, with the kind of distended bellies that are caused by extreme manutrition that you see on TV in spots about the starving children in Africa. You don't have to go that far to see them. They're is not unlikely to be some less than an hour's drive from your door.
I'm sorry if I seem a bit rough here, but I was all too often faced with the tragic results of the kind of ignorance of the facts that you are dsiplaying and it's heart rending! We sometimes, not often, because I had a great support staff, but sometimes had to turn people away because we were out of supplies and out of money. I and they have brought people into our own homes, and yes, been stolen from in the process, becuase you can't look a little girl in the eyes and tell her that maybe the 35th Street Shelter will have some food but you're out.
Try explaining to a little girl that the people driving by in their Beamers on the street outside don't give a damned if she starves because they'd rather not have to think about her, about her reality.
And as for owning their own home...where did you get that non-sense? If five percent of the below the poverty level people in America own their own home I'll eat your mouse pad. Do you know how many homeless we have in this nation? It's terrifying and it's growing year by year. Ask yourself why? Do all of these people just dig the whole "homeless schtick"?
Draxy
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Post by Hussar on Oct 29, 2003 2:37:36 GMT -5
I'll certainly give you the first one. And, realistically, it's probably the cause of the second one. But to say that other countries aren't carrying huge debts is not exactly true. Most western countries are carrying debts. In Canada alone, something like 20% of all tax dollars goes to service the debt (And in Canada where you pay 42 per cent income tax, that's saying a lot). Yet, Canada is still able to give more money than America. Again, as a portion of GDP. Think about it this way. A rich man can give someone 1000 dollars and not even think about it. A poor man can only give 10 dollars and that's his entire savings. Who is more generous?
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Post by Wyrmfire on Oct 29, 2003 14:00:28 GMT -5
Hussar-
Our national debt is the envy of the modern world. Right now, my portion of the debt is over 40,000 dollars. This is higher than the average yearly income! Canada pays a lot, but the US is insane. I agree that the poor man is the more generous, although you shouldn't forget that the rich man is being 100 times more helpful, even if he is not feeling it. So don't trivialize the thousand dollars just because there isn't any suffering involved on the part of the donor.
Draxy-
You're right, I do live a very sheltered life (although not because I'm rich, I just live in a small town and have an almost phobic dislike of cities). I'm not stupid enough to think that I can argue about poverty with someone that works in a homeless shelter. If even half of what you're saying is true, then I do indeed have gross misconceptions about this country, and I apologize for any comments made out of ignorance.
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Post by Draxy on Oct 30, 2003 1:56:16 GMT -5
Hi Wyrmfire,
My appologises as well. More than nearly any other subject (short of child abuse) the plight of the homeless has great personal meaning to me and I did NOT mean to be so blasted condescending. It's just so horribly sad at times that it has the power to loose too many of the inhibitions that demand that I think before opening my big mouth.
Be well friend.
Draxy
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Post by Wyrmfire on Oct 30, 2003 2:03:57 GMT -5
Bah. Sometimes we all need a quick smack across the face, and I didn't really find it insulting in the slightest. I must say, I think you managed to get my attention more than the combined efforts of three ministers and John Grisham. I have done a lot of charity work, but now I think I know why.
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Post by Draxy on Oct 30, 2003 4:30:33 GMT -5
You're a class act Wyrmfire. Most people just aren't honest enough to admit when they don't know the facts. We'd all be better off taking your example to heart.
Draxy
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Post by RowanMoonWynd on Oct 30, 2003 12:11:19 GMT -5
You are in the top 0.863% richest people in the world. There are 5,948,196,435 people poorer than you. How do you feel about that? A bit richer we hope. Please consider donating just a small amount to help some of the poorest people in the world. Many of their lives could be improved dramatically or even saved if you donate just one hour's salary (approx $38.88)
Oh, and in case you’re interested you are the 51,803,565 richest person in the world.
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