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Post by Draxy on Nov 13, 2003 2:53:17 GMT -5
You know, VtM gets more BS thrown at it by supposed gamers than D&D ever did by the foam at the mouth religious crowd.
The White Wolf system has alot to suggest itself and VtM background within it specificly has TONS to suggest itself, yet it is always equated with the uber-goths. BS! The game itself is not about being an uber-goth any more than D&D is about devil worship people! It is just as sick minded to so treat it as it is for the ultra right to so denigrate this pass time as a whole.
I am about as far from being a goth anything as can be possibly imagined, but when I want pure Role Play (as opposed to role play with a more tactical feel which is what AD&D 2E gives me) I would FAR rather play a White Wolf game (my personal favorite presently is Demon) than any other system. The system itself is almost entirely geared towards the Role Play aspect after all.
This hobby isn't called "Dungeons and Dragoning". It IS called Role Playing. Let's quit beating up the system that best expresses what Role Playing is all about shall we?
Draxy
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Post by ShonenSenshiDave on Nov 13, 2003 7:02:07 GMT -5
My appologies to all pagans out there for putting up this article. I thought it was amusing, I had no intention of insulting or offending anyone. If anyone is truly offended, please PM me and I'll delete this thread immedietely. Again, my appologies.  Although, SSD, you may have offended the Uber-depressed Goth crowd that was actually the point, Hussar, lol. A lot of what this dude was saying is about stereotypes. Gamer Geeks, Pagans; I've just added another one to the list. Am I all up on arms about this article...? Nah. Like I said in the first half of my last post, it was kinda funny. I'm at the stage in my path where this stuff is pretty petty, a;though I still believe that it at least bears mentioning that it was a stereotype. Just like the goth set with Vampire. |
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Post by khyron1144 on Nov 13, 2003 11:23:06 GMT -5
As much as 3e sucks mechnically, the new blood and retired old blood returning to the fold that it brought in will ultimately good.
Eventually, these people will discover other games, such as Vampire and maybe even some will try to track down a used set of 2e, 1e, or basic D&D rules.
Those are the people we want in the hobby.
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Post by RowanMoonWynd on Nov 13, 2003 15:03:57 GMT -5
My appologies to all pagans out there for putting up this article. I thought it was amusing, I had no intention of insulting or offending anyone. If anyone is truly offended, please PM me and I'll delete this thread immedietely. Again, my appologies. Although, SSD, you may have offended the Uber-depressed Goth crowd I'm not offended Hussar. I just wanted to get my point across that's all. I really don't understand why anyone would think that rping is unsafe though. I was watching a show the other night about this guy that was accused of murdering his family, and they used the whole he role plays and is weird for it (my way of understanding it) scenario. I kind of thought to myself that it was ludricious. I cannot believe our society stoops to such levels as to label someone like that because of a hobby that they don't understand. Indeed, it is a frightening world we live in when people cannot find a motive for murder and have to come up with stuff like this. I can understand why alot of people are afraid to let others know that they role play. |
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Post by Shura on Nov 13, 2003 16:10:15 GMT -5
I'm 17 and got hold of a set of 1st ed rulebooks a year ago, coupled with borrowed stuff from an older friend of mine, I have a pretty expansive 1e resource.
The articles pretty funny, after all gamers shouldn't. take themselves too seriously (just think a little bit about what we do). Roleplaying in my area seems almost nonexistent, but there's a sort of underground one can reach if you talk to the right people, though few people stick with it for a long while. Funnily enough with dnd, 1e and 3e roleplayers dont think much of each other, but perhaps it's cos my group of 1e players have palyed with experienced DM's and despair at the power gaming of the generally younger (and less committed) 3e gamers. Saying that I'm thinking of starting a 3e campaign myself, cos I can't really knock it till ive tried it.
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Post by Draxy on Nov 13, 2003 16:42:10 GMT -5
Good move Shura. Definately, try 3E and don't let what you hear from friends or here color your trial of it.
Draxy
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Post by Hussar on Nov 13, 2003 20:31:21 GMT -5
Whoa, Draxy. I'm very impressed. Nice line. Unexpected, but nice. Well done you.
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Post by Hussar on Nov 13, 2003 23:57:47 GMT -5
Just to toss a little gasoline on the fire, here's a Knights of the Dinner Table take on LARP (Oh, and check out the ending.) www.hoodyhoo.com/kodt04.htm |
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Post by khyron1144 on Nov 14, 2003 1:26:15 GMT -5
Funny, but they seem to have Vampire confused with Vampire LARP. Vampire can be played table top, although it is often more story-heavy and RP-intense even when played table top, which is its main strength.
I want to be the dark prince of Munsey.
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Post by Draxy on Nov 14, 2003 2:20:57 GMT -5
I don't know why it should be surprising Hussar. I told you, I gave the bloody game a 60+ session trial. I despise it with full knowledge of it.
If you haven't given something a good long test and rag it anyway, then you've no room to complain.
Draxy
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Post by Minion on Nov 14, 2003 5:48:35 GMT -5
I'll agree that, in a way wotc is bringing in new gamers ba commercializing the hobby effectively. But as a whole, thse new gamers aren't making the best impression on me. I fear for the future of my favorite pass-time. It's like the LOTR crowd. It used to be cult. You'd know someone was a legitimate fantasy geek if they knew their Tolkien. Now its just a mideval star wars, and everybody and their mom wants to be Legolas for halloweeen. IMO the gaming crowd could use another healthy dose of religious persecution, mainly because it seems we forgot what we had to struggle against. It should have unified us, and did a little, but thats fading at shocking speed. DnD players were actually dragged to court for various offenses, and lawyers effectively used the DND - satan worshipping argument in the prosecution. Just read anything by Jack Chic. That's the mindset we had to be confronted with almost daily. Maybe thats the problem with the new breed of gamers, they didn't have to fight for their right to game. I've had to defend myself physically on many occasions against ignorant greyfaces who accused me in contributing to the deaths of anyone who has ever died in connection to DnD (yes all BS, but the majority believed it). How can we have forgotten that kind of hate and anger against us as a whole so fast? Yes, teach kids how to roleplay. My 7 year old has been playing RPG Jr for 3 years and he loves it. I couldn't be more proud |
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Post by Hussar on Nov 14, 2003 7:10:49 GMT -5
Really Minion? Y'know, I've heard of things like this, but I've never actually witnessed it. The worst I ever saw was somebody looking at you like you had two heads when you said you played DnD. Fights? Over the game you played? You lived in a very strange place.
I wonder if that's what it is though. Like you said, LOTR was kind of a cult culture. And, like any cult culture, when it becomes main stream it is no longer "pure". Think of all the artists out there that have been accused of "selling out". Just because someone is liked by more than a closet full of fans, suddenly, they're a sell out. Is that what has happened to role playing? Is that why people have such a big chip on their shoulder regarding WOTC? That because the new crop of gamers isn't us, they are somehow less?
Can you only be a "true" gamer if you've been playing since "way back when"?
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Post by MrLemurBoy on Nov 14, 2003 16:35:21 GMT -5
Ok, I just gotta throw in my 2 cents here. I've played several different systems, and have now settled on 3E as my system of choice. I've also managed to introduce several new people to gaming since 3E came out. Will some of them try other systems? Probably. Will some of them just stick with 3E? again, probably. Either they're comfortable, or just don't have time to try a different campaign, but one way or another, I don't see their pick of system, or the fact that they aren't as hard-core into gaming as I am to be a reason to look down on them. I'm just happy that I get to game with them.
Also, I would like to point out that I started role-playing when I was in university, and it was a Christian University at that. My friends and I got a lot of people asking "Isn't that evil or something like that?" and our response was usually mocking ("yes, we sacrifice a goat every night. did you bring the goat John? What? It was your turn to bring the goat. I brought the black candles"), but that's about all the negative stigma we got (besides being labeled geeks). We didn't have any administration telling us we couldn't play that there, we didn't have people yelling at us or praying for our very souls. It's only a small, albiet, vocal minority that does that.
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Post by Minion on Nov 14, 2003 16:59:09 GMT -5
I always figured the gaming community suffered to a similar extent as I did. Maybe I was an exception. *shrug* I lived in a very conservative christian *cough* community, where I was attacked on more than one occasion. Some idiot killed himself and the DND haters jumped all over it because the guy was a gamer. I had my gaming books forceably taken from me and destroyed. If you didn't go through that then I'm glad for you, cause noone should have to. I guess its given me a kind of fierce loyalty to gaming and the rights to game when, where, and however we want. I don't think I have a chip on my shoulder, but I do get a mite defensive when someone tries to threaten mine or anyone else's right to game.
DnD is the main culprit, cause more mundanes know the name. You tell someone "Oh I play Dungeons and Dragons" they know what you're talking about. You say "I play GURPS" they just shrug and pass it off as something they don't associate with anything.
My other big threat is console RPGs, but thats a whole other discussion alltogether which I don't wish to open here. Oh and I don't anyone thinking I hate christians, because I am one by belief, animist by practice.
Wow, didn't mean to turn this post into a rant. Sorry :/
EDIT: I meant to add that I don't believe a "true" gamer is made by since when (s)he's been gaming, but by the attitude and philosophy, and also loyalty to gaming one brings to the table. Always carry your dicebag with pride, and never be in any way embarrassed to announce what you are.
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Post by Draxy on Nov 14, 2003 17:48:09 GMT -5
I was one of the lucky ones, in a way, in that no one ever physicly tried anything with me over gaming. People usually avoided even ragging on gamers to badly in my presence. Now the fact that I'm 6'3" and have been pumping iron snce I was 12 might have something to do with that though.
But with all that said, in South West Florida there were SEVERAL major drives by Christian Fundimentalist groups to get the few local stores that carried gaming materials to drop them. They succeeded with Master's Merchandise Mart (which was at one time a fairly big multi-state chain of stores) but thankfully the local bookstore owner told them to get stiffed, point blank and period. It wasn't because she was making so much money selling the games (there were not alot of us in the area that bought the stuff) but becuase she HATED any kind of, as she called it, "reactionist censorship". I got to know the old woman well and Jeanie special ordered stuff for me all the time.
She DID loose money by selling them. Her sales dropped off to record lows for several months before she recovered by putting in a magazine section that sold *gasp* Playboy, Penthouse & Juggs along side all the more mainstream magazines. Of course, those were the ones that sold best. *lol*
The Fundies drove her to it. She disliked porn personally and had never stocked it before the whole "evils of gaming" bruhaha. She and I shared more than one laugh about that.
It did happen and it still does. Jack Chick isn't alone folks, more's the pity.
Draxy
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