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Post by Hussar on Nov 21, 2003 1:27:49 GMT -5
I don't know. The second world war has led to 50 + years of reasonable peace and prosperity for a good chunk of the planet. Yes, I realize there have been wars in the second half of the twentieth, but nothing on the scale on the first half of the twentieth or even the 19th century. From Napoleon to Hitler, we had 150 years of the largest wars the world had ever seen. Now, in the aftermath of those wars, Europe has been pretty peaceful for 50 years (with some exceptions). The idea of another large scale war with multiple countries on either side is pretty far fetched. I think the 90's have summed up modern warfare pretty well. Unbelievable response to a vastly overmatched enemy. Look at the wars that have been fought by the west in the last 10 years - Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia, The Gulf twice, Somalia, Haiti, the list goes on and on. When someone gets too far out of line, by and large, the rest of the world communty steps up and squashes him. The main reason people didn't want war in Iraq is because Iraq's problems were internal. Iraq hadn't invaded anyone recently, so, most countries were perfectly content with the status quo.
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Post by Sightspitter on Nov 21, 2003 11:30:37 GMT -5
Pacifism is like communism. Great on paper, poor in practice. Violence is sometimes the lesser of two evils and therefore must be used when necassary.
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Post by ShonenSenshiDave on Nov 21, 2003 11:53:02 GMT -5
Pacifism is a greal ideal, but utterly and completely unrealistic. War and conflict can be traced by to Gods only know when. Unless we're willing to adopt some global socialism which would elimate war, strife, conflict, property, and probably free will as well, it's simply not a possibility.
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Post by Sharess on Dec 3, 2003 17:39:05 GMT -5
I'm hope that being a pacifist works for you and all the other pacifist but in all honesty it's not me. I'm a fighter. When it comes right down to fight or flight , I fight. That doesn't mean that I go out of my way to pick a fight but I will make damn sure that nothing and I mean nothing will ever hurt my family or other loved ones or my self as long as I have breathe in my lungs. I know this sounds a tad overprotective but I beleive that if you really cherish something you will lay your life down on the line to keep that person or whatever eles it may be safe. But like I said that is just me it may not be the "right way" but it is my way.
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Post by Loki3 on Dec 3, 2003 22:00:34 GMT -5
Balance
Things balance out in the end, yes the "Ideal" world would have no violence and if Pacifism is a model you want to follow then so be it, it works for you great....
Ime not a violent person, I beleive violence is redundant and 90 percent of the time, a simple waste of time and ones innner energy.
HOWEVER......
Your initial comment about the intruder is kinda... well kinda stupid. If someone breaks into my home, I have 2 daughters and the intruder would meet Mr Glock 17 with no hesitation on my part.
Point is that there is allways a "Good" or "Legitimate" reason to use violence....
If you and your Sister go out for Dinner, and someone knocks you down and pulls her in an alley and starts raping her, I would bet your pacifism would go out the window.
Point yet again.......
Everything has a limit and a balance..... It is ideal if everyone could recognize and respect those balances and limits.... They dont is the problem.
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Post by Cyberpaladin85 on Dec 4, 2003 22:34:56 GMT -5
Uh, that probably wasn't the best example that you could have given.
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Post by EK - Shadow of Death on Dec 4, 2003 23:15:02 GMT -5
Uh, that probably wasn't the best example that you could have given. It was realistic and effective. I believe that it proves the point. However, a true pacifist would not interfere. I believe that true pacifism is not an aversion to violence, but a realization that violence is too petty to take notice of. I don't believe that Buddha, were his sister to be raped, would interfere. He would realize that the rapist had permanently tainted his soul and would take a while to gain enlightenment. His sister, though violated, would have commited no wrong, and would have to live her life as normal. I'm not saying that I either agree or disagree with this, but simply that the fortitude of a pacifist's will is based on their wisdom. |
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Post by Cyberpaladin85 on Dec 5, 2003 21:12:00 GMT -5
Ugh, I feel ill now after those examples.  |
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Post by Archmage Turanis Altaine on Dec 7, 2003 20:52:18 GMT -5
in the words of my sensei, "Draw your line in the sand, people will see it and realize the consequenses of it's violation."
in other words he said to make my personal code my truth, Warn thine enemy of the consequences and if he still acts, defend your way.
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Post by Sharess on Dec 7, 2003 23:28:54 GMT -5
in the words of my sensei, "Draw your line in the sand, people will see it and realize the consequenses of it's violation." in other words he said to make my personal code my truth, Warn thine enemy of the consequences and if he still acts, defend your way. i think that is a very healthly way to think |
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Post by EK - Shadow of Death on Dec 7, 2003 23:43:48 GMT -5
It is also little more than what most people do. Wisdom comes not from treating things that infringe on you as an enemy, but by making them your friend, instead, and helping them find their own path.
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Post by khyron1144 on Dec 29, 2003 15:50:08 GMT -5
Your initial comment about the intruder is kinda... well kinda stupid. If someone breaks into my home, I have 2 daughters and the intruder would meet Mr Glock 17 with no hesitation on my part. Point is that there is allways a "Good" or "Legitimate" reason to use violence.... If you and your Sister go out for Dinner, and someone knocks you down and pulls her in an alley and starts raping her, I would bet your pacifism would go out the window. Point yet again....... Everything has a limit and a balance..... It is ideal if everyone could recognize and respect those balances and limits.... They dont is the problem. I have no sisters or daughters (I have two brothers, but I have not found a mate, so I have no offspring), but I could see your point as it might apply to my cousins, aunts, grandmothers, and so on. In actual point of fact, one of my female relatives has been atacked. In some ways, I would like to kille her atacker in a slow and paniful way over the course of several days. I don't think I would actually do it however, even if the oppurtunity presented itself. While some people are deserving of death, it is not up to me to give it to them. I trust that vile people will meet a vile fate, possibly in the next life, if you believe in such a thing. |
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