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Post by Hussar on Jul 28, 2004 8:06:52 GMT -5
LOL. Since when is America a system based on oppression? One of the freest systems on the planet, heavily backed by its constitution. While I may have issues with American policy, I'm not going to try to say that their system is any worse than ours. Good grief, their system has FAR more checks and balances built into it than any parliamentary system could ever hope to have. We elect a four to five year dictator who, if he holds a majority government, can pretty much do whatever he likes during his term. Think about it, we got rammed with the GST despite overwhelming condemnation. And the next party along did absolutely nothing about it and still managed two reelections. To try and slam the American system in this manner is just not productive.
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Post by Chahiero on Jul 28, 2004 13:28:06 GMT -5
The point is that it is a system. Any system has rules. These rules, while intended as checks and balances, are more often than not used as tools for oppression.
And I still get a laugh everytime someone puts America and freedom in the same sentence.
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Post by Hussar on Jul 29, 2004 3:03:06 GMT -5
Really? Ok, riddle me this.
As a Canadian, what rights do you enjoy that an American doesn't? What freedoms are guaranteed by our Constitution that is not guaranteed by the American Constitution? It's all very well and good to sit back and sneer at the AMericans. Heck, as a Canadian, we've basically turned it into a national sport. But to sit there and try to say that the American system of government is repressive is simply not true and shows a fundamental lack of understanding of American politics.
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Post by Chahiero on Jul 29, 2004 12:09:58 GMT -5
Unless there's a system out there that is anarchic, there is no free country on this planet.
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Post by Hussar on Jul 29, 2004 20:26:51 GMT -5
The concept that the only system of freedom is anarchy is a pipe dream. In an anarchic system, only the strong will have any rights, and even then, only the rights they can carve out. I would much prefer a stable system of government that protects my rights and freedoms to a system where raping women is perfectly acceptable.
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Post by Galadon on Jul 30, 2004 11:34:05 GMT -5
I have come across a few who like anarchy. Most of them are genneral in high school or just got out. They basically have the mind set living at home with the parents who tell them what to do all the time. I would give them something to think about.
How about try this for a while, live on your own, pay your own bill, buy your own food and clothes. do this for about 5 years. Strange things happen, thoughts of anarchy and democratic dreams disappear.
In a place were anarchy is the way of life I could beat you to a plup and take anything you have. The only person who can prevent this is you. Anarchy is survival of the strongest.
In a true democratic country the majority controls things. This could only lead to chaos.
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Post by Chahiero on Jul 30, 2004 12:12:21 GMT -5
You speak of chaos and the survival of the strongest as if thet are bad things, the truth of the matter is that survival of the fittest is natures "checks and balances" and we are simply trying to circumvent them in an effort by those who would fall by that system to survive.
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Post by Merkuri on Jul 30, 2004 16:27:57 GMT -5
You speak of chaos and the survival of the strongest as if thet are bad things, the truth of the matter is that survival of the fittest is natures "checks and balances" and we are simply trying to circumvent them in an effort by those who would fall by that system to survive. Hmm, I hear this argument all the time, but usually about foods and drugs. Why does everyone think that just because it's natural it's good? Coccaine and heroine are natural. I don't know about you, but I like my civilization. I like my computers and television that entertain me. I like my allergy pills and glasses that allow me to live a better quality life than I would otherwise. We live in a paradise compared to a survival-of-the-fittest world where we'd have to literally fight for our survival. I just don't understand why, to some people, that hell is preferrable to this heaven. True, I don't have complete and absolute freedom, but I can do just about anything I'd want to and I have security. True, the human race is no longer evolving, but do we really need to? I have glasses the size of coke bottles and asthma that could kill me if I was locked up in the room with a cat for a day or two. I'd be one of the first to go in a survival-of-the-fittest world. But what would that accomplish? With my glasses and inhaler I can live a perfectly normal life. Why eliminate those genes from the pool if they're not inhibiting me? I thought we were above all that. I guess I just don't understand some people's reasoning on why we should go back to being animals, fighting and killing just to eke out an existence, rather than enjoying ourselves in luxury like we are now.
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Post by Chahiero on Jul 30, 2004 20:00:12 GMT -5
It happens anyways, so then why do we try to hide it under the guise of civility?
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Post by Galadon on Jul 31, 2004 12:36:53 GMT -5
It happens anyways, Chahiero I'm going to take a guess and say your still living with partents and haven't been out of high to long, maybe your still in there. I don't think you have a grasp on how good you have it in Canada.
Where you live is the floor made of dirt do you have a carpet for a door.
Do you wash your clothes in a machine or down by the river bank.
In the past month how many time have went to sleep not eatting anything for that day.
Do you have to find food for the day other than going to a store.
Has anyone broke into your house and took what food you have.
I don't believe any of this has happen to you. Yet you think your living in a bad place. I have been in countries where these things happen almost daily. If you think that Canada or America is such a rotten place to live, go visit a few countries. Where anarchy is the rule. There are plenty of them out there.
You may think your in a bad way, but you have no idea how good you have it. Go see a few countries which have very poor living condition and then talk about anarchy.
I have met plenty of people who think they have such a hard time here and the government is corrupt and its compelety chaos. A 2nd Lt. in the Marines thought this until he saw a woman in Korea washing the clothes through a hole in the ice. I have seen the results of anarchy on a small scale, oppression, Tyrants, and dictators.
Generally people who have never traveled think this way, and I don't mean travelling to a vaction spot.
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Post by Chahiero on Jul 31, 2004 14:39:03 GMT -5
Exactly - people are oppressed anyways - so why do we inisist on hiding it between the guise of civility?
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Post by Galadon on Jul 31, 2004 15:22:13 GMT -5
The only time your not going to be oppressed and have complete freedom is if you live on an island my yourself. There is one place on this earth you can go without dealing with others, even Antartica has people.
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Post by Chahiero on Jul 31, 2004 15:31:47 GMT -5
I'd for one like to think that there is some way everyone could be free.
... and they say Im the depressing one.
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Post by Galadon on Jul 31, 2004 15:53:10 GMT -5
The problem is not everyone believes that. Just look at Saddam Hussien, how many were free to do things in that country.
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Post by Hussar on Jul 31, 2004 21:05:47 GMT -5
The problem is, complete freedom is insanity. The idea that it would be preferable to live in a place where I can eat babies is horrid. We started in anarchy. Where life expectancy was maybe three decades, if you were lucky. Where infant mortality was close to 30 per cent. Where minor cuts could lead to the loss of a limb.
Just to give you an idea of what anarchy would mean.
A few years ago, I was in Northern Canada planting trees. Summer job during uni. Near Wawa, Ontario, if you know where that is. Anyway, while planting, I slipped, fell and impaled my left hand on a sharp stump. Small hole. Not much bigger than a pencil. The doctor up there thought I had a broken thumb, stuck me in a cast and I went back home to London (yup, there's a London, Canada). About four days later I was on the surgery table having my hand sliced open in three different places to release the infection which had paralyzed all the tendons in my carpal tunnel. I've still got a rather nasty set of scars from that little job. But, in a "natural" setting, I would have lost my hand. Probably somewhere near the elbow.
Me, I like civilization. And the key to spreading that civilization is simply existing. We don't need to export our culture. There's a reason so many people want to immigrate to our countries. It's because we do enjoy a standard of living FAR in excess of most countries. The fact that our population has co-existed peacefully for over a century is very impressive. Not many countries can claim that.
BTW, that Marine LT in Korea must have been during the Korean War. 1. South Korea doesn't get that much snow. 2. Korea is now the world's 8th largest economy, people have washing machines now. Cars too if you can believe it. Heck, even indoor plumbing. It's amazing what those people have. Snort. Heh.
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