Judge orders couple not to have children

[Merkuri]

[From CNN.com: www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/05/08/conception.banned.ap/index.html ]

Judge orders couple not to have children
Saturday, May 8, 2004 Posted: 9:18 AM EDT (1318 GMT)

ROCHESTER, New York (AP) -- A couple has been ordered not to conceive any more children until the ones they already have are no longer in foster care.

A civil liberties advocate said the court ruling unsealed Friday was "blatantly unconstitutional."

Monroe County Family Court Judge Marilyn O'Connor ruled March 31 that both parents "should not have yet another child which must be cared for at public expense."

"The facts of this case and the reality of parenthood cry out for family planning education," she ruled. "This court believes the constitutional right to have children is overcome when society must bear the financial and everyday burden of care."

The judge is not forcing contraception on the couple nor is she requiring the mother to get an abortion should she become pregnant. The couple may choose to be sterilized at no cost to them, O'Connor ruled.

If the couple violates O'Connor's ruling, they could be jailed for contempt of court.

"I don't know of any precedent that would permit a judge to do this," Anna Schissel, staff attorney for the Reproductive Rights Project of the New York Civil Liberties Union, told the Democrat and Chronicle of Rochester. "And even if there were a precedent, it would be blatantly unconstitutional because it violates the United States Constitution and the New York Constitution."

Neither parent attended the proceeding or secured legal representation. The mother waived her right to a lawyer, and the father never showed up in court.

The mother was found to have neglected her four children, ages 1, 2, 4 and 5. All three children who were tested for cocaine tested positive, according to court papers. Both parents had a history of drug abuse. It was not immediately clear if the father had other children.

A case worker testified that the parents ignored an order to get mental health treatment and attend parenting classes after the 1-year-old was born.

The mother was still in the hospital after giving birth to her fourth child in March 2003 when authorities took the infant, according to court papers. Investigators said the mother was unprepared to care for the infant.

Attempts to reach the youngest child's guardian were unsuccessful. Information on the other children's guardians was not immediately available.

Attorney Chris Affronti, who chairs the family law section of the Monroe County Bar Association, said he's not sure how the ruling could be enforced.

"I think what the judge is trying to do is kind of have a wake-up call for society," he said.

[Galadon]

Oh this is a rich one. Explain how being order not to have children is unconstitutional. The couple show be forced to be steril. It's obvivios they have not even common sense.

[Chahiero]

Again, people are selfishly putting their own "rights" and their own good ahead of that of society's.

I may not like society a lot of the time, but we must work to improve it and change it, not dismantle it, and change starts with ONE.

[Galadon]

This may be a reach and far out there {for liberals} but having children is not a right, it is a responsiblity. I know that word is one of the foulest words you can say to a liberal ''''RESPONSIBLE"". But it's true, just pumping out kids because you can or have the intellegence of a dog, doesn't mean you should be able to continue.

[Merkuri]

In this case, yes, I agree that these people should not have children. They've proven themselves unable to care for them, and that's just not fair for the people that they are bringing into the world. I do believe that it is a "right" for people to have children, but that they have the responsibility to care for those little persons that they are creating. A couple must be able to fulfill that responsibility before they can execute their "right" to have a kid.

[Chahiero]

There are consequences to each action, and it sounds like this couple wasn't prepared to deal with said consequences. Thus, they lose the right, for right MUST come with responsiblity.

[Hussar]

Heh, good luck enforcing it. What are they going to do if she gets pregnant again? Forced abortion? Good luck. Heck, even the Chinese can't do it. And they've forbidden anyone from having more than 1 kid for the past two decades. You can try all you like, it simply can't be done.

[Chahiero]

Legislate them to be sterilized, probably. Or just throw one of them in jail.

Both extreme measures, but if you're going to rule something like that, then you have to be willing to enforce it with some pretty extreme measures.

[Merkuri]

I think steralizing them is a little extreme (unless they do it voluntarily, of course). If these people clean themselves up one day and prove they can handle taking care of children then maybe they should be allowed to have them. If there were some way to temporarily sterilize them then I'd say go for it, but there isn't really any form of birth control that is both reversable and "forceable". I mean, you could put the woman on the pill, but you can't force her to take it every day (without actually seeing her every day), and the same with condoms. Not to mention neither of those are 100% effective.

I think in cases like this prevention is the key, but it's as hard, if not harder than trying to force a horny and stoner couple like this to use birth control. What I mean by "prevention" is to educate these folks about birth control and childcare, but by this point it's too late. Of course, some people just refuse to learn, but I think that they only sure way to prevent situations like this is to make people fully aware of what they are doing to themselves and their potential children. The trick is "getting them while they're young" and making these "lessons" entertaining enough that the kids get the point. Much much harder than it seems, and sure beats me how to do it (though good teachers would be a great starting point), but I think it's our best chance.

[Challenger]

I forget the name or the details but there is a form of reversable permanent sterilisation for men if memory serves.

Challenger

[Chahiero]

Education is indeed a good preventative measure, but what about a curative measure for the case in point?