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Post by Hussar on Oct 3, 2003 9:23:23 GMT -5
I figured it was time to start yet another Iraq thread. I'll start things off with a quote from this weeks Newsweek and columnist Fareed Zakaria
He continues noting that Rumsfeld, in a recent Washington Post interview made several very serious errors in his findings. Rumsfeld is pushing for a very light hand in creating democracy in Iraq and a very short occupation since long occupations lead to failures (in his view) like Kosovo and East Timor.
Zakaria continues:
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Post by CharleHu$$tle on Oct 3, 2003 11:50:49 GMT -5
Hussar your a Dead Horse beating champ HUH
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Post by OceanWhysper on Oct 5, 2003 3:33:32 GMT -5
Well whether we like the issue or not, it's still a large focus of not only us here in the US, but also the world.
How things are done, will effect not only the Iraqis, but us as well. The whole world is following this, and just waiting for the US to screw up. My personal opinion is that we have handled it badly. But like I said, that's my personal opinion. ;D
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Post by ShonenSenshiDave on Oct 5, 2003 6:42:47 GMT -5
Heck, on a certain level, the US has botched this up royally! We have lost almost as many soldiers post-war as we did during the war, IIRC. None of the infrastructure is back up and running at this point, IIRC. Many of these people have no water, no electricity, and buildings are trashed. Just read an article in US News and World Report about the court system there, and it looks like a joke. The lower courts are pretty much US run, the Appellate Courts are actually Iraqi run, but then there is a higher court that is pretty much a puppet court for the US to run to if they don't like the decision of the lower appeals court. <sigh>
To make things worse, the US STILL hasn't figured out how to get an international coalition to help with the feeding and care of Iraq at this point. Why on Earth are we NOT going to the UN for help? This cowboy mentality of Dubya's is gonna break the bank here at home. The unemployment rate keeps getting worse, social services in this country are being slashed left and right, but we have billions of dollars a day to pay for this mess. Yeah, right.
Man, I really hope that by this time next year the Dems have Howard Dean or Wes Clark running... hopefully one of them can beat the Bush. Maybe they can get us out of this mess.
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Post by Hussar on Oct 5, 2003 6:52:42 GMT -5
Well, to be fair, the losses of soldiers, while regrettable, is pretty minor. As far as I know, there has been about three or four hundred deaths in the six or so months since the war ended. Out of 200 thousand troops on the ground. This is a drop in the bucket and is probably comparable to police losses in the US. I'm not sure about that, but, realistically, it is the media making that an issue.
The problem that I see is, no matter what dubuya does now, he's going to look like a complete hypocrite and his cronies will crucify him for it. On one hand, he makes at least a token attempt to go to the UN, and then you get Rummy shooting off his mouth about how gibbled the UN is. Somebody has got to put a muzzle on Rumsfeld before anything can happen.
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Post by DustinFireblade on Oct 6, 2003 16:09:55 GMT -5
The funny thing about this is that we are hearing only the bad things here in the US. According to several of my friends who are there currently, many places are improving on a daily basis with the basic essential. Now that said, I still believe, as do my military friends there, feel that the US has indeed screwed up, there seems to be no real good plan and things are moving along slow, which of course causes problems with the Iraqis who want better lives now.
Hey Rome was not built in a day, but a better, detailed plan of action to move things along at a good pace would be a heck of a lot better.
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Post by Hussar on Oct 8, 2003 2:24:35 GMT -5
True, Rome wasn't built in a day, but they probably had water after 6 months. And that's the thing. It's been SIX months. Almost half a year after the fall of Baghdad and what do we see? Daily protests about no jobs, no water and no electricity. The Iraqi people are pissed and rightfully so. Hmm, under Hussein you couldn't complain about the government but you had a job and you put food on the table for your family. After Hussein there's no government to complain about since it doesn't exist yet and now you don't have a job and can'T feed your children. And people are surprised that the average Iraqi seems a little ungrateful?
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Post by DustinFireblade on Oct 8, 2003 20:52:41 GMT -5
Well here again that is parts of Iraq that still have problems. There are many places that are more or less running normal.
And I also blame many of Iraq's problems on the people of Iraq as well. Money has been handed out for food and essentials. Places are open if people would go back to work.
Again this is starting to take place in parts of Iraq, but we have media hype for all the places that its not.
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agamoto
Soldier
Greetings and salutations one and all!!
Posts: 239
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Post by agamoto on Oct 9, 2003 11:05:02 GMT -5
Unfortunatly, the media being the way they are, will only focus on the bad stuff. They rarely have any thing good to say, the reason being that bad news sells.
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Post by DustinFireblade on Oct 9, 2003 12:48:17 GMT -5
Unfortunatly, the media being the way they are, will only focus on the bad stuff. They rarely have any thing good to say, the reason being that bad news sells. Very true
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Post by Hussar on Oct 10, 2003 1:17:57 GMT -5
While it's all well and good to pass this off as media frenzy, and that may be true, one thing that does worry me is the lack of accountability of Bush. In England, they are already starting to investigate Blair and determine exactly what role he played in the intelligence (or lack thereof) given to the public and the UN. In America, there have been no public outcry, at least nothing noticeable in the news. It's a little strange that the last president gets a round of skully in the oval office and nearly get impeached while this guy pretty much out and out lies to the entire world and starts a very large war leading to the long term occupation of another country, and nothing is said. Where is the investigation? Why is this being let to slide without any repercussions? The Iraq war is going to be the end of Tony Blair, yet, the American public doesn't seem to care that it has been lied to.
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Post by Cyberpaladin85 on Oct 10, 2003 1:41:53 GMT -5
I have a theory about that, but I'm afraid that it would offend people who are democrats or republicans. It's not terribly offensive, but it's still not a nice thing to say. I won't say it unless you want me to say it.
Do you want me to say it?
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Post by Dr. Doom III on Oct 10, 2003 1:43:14 GMT -5
Say it.
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Post by Hussar on Oct 10, 2003 3:55:50 GMT -5
Well, since it's a theory that will annoy either Dems or Republicans, I would say that it is pretty even handed and fair. Kind of like saying I'll insult either left or right handed people. ;D So long as its not racist or very crude, it'll pass.
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Post by DustinFireblade on Oct 10, 2003 11:23:38 GMT -5
Hussar: President Bush's popularity and approval rating has all gone way down. Most people are still waiting, everyone knows Hussein had them and everyone knows Hussein never really proved that he didn't have them. So there is still the benefit of doubt for Pres. Bush.
Now all that said, I don't know if Hussein had them when we went in or not and frankly I don't care. It is, and always has been, enough for me that Hussein was removed from power. Now I do believe that Hussein/Iraq had the capability and the intention to produce chemical and/or biological weapons, along with developing a nuclear capability.
If there is WMD in Iraq, then it may take some time to find them as has been said by the administration. Sometimes there is no quick answer.
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