Cardinal Alfonso Trujillo

[Hussar]

Here's a little sample of what the good Cardinal and the Pontifical Council for the Family is saying:

Cardinal proposes warning on condom packets


Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo has suggested condom packages should carry health warning similar to that printed on cigarette packets.

He put forward his idea in response to questions about his statements on the BBC Panorama TV report that condoms were not a guarantee against catching HIV/AIDS, comparing condom use to playing Russian Roulette.

"I propose that the ministries of health require the inclusion in condom packages and advertisements, and in the apparatus or shelves where they are displayed, a warning, that the condom is not safe," said Cardinal Trujillo, who is president of the Vatican's Council for the Family said.

"This has been done since some time ago with cigarettes, saying that the filter does not guarantee protection."

His original remarks provoked a hostile reaction from international health authorities who are more confident than Cardinal Trujillo in the safety of condoms and see the promotion of their use as the key to arresting the HIV/AIDS pandemic.

"I simply wished to remind the public, sustaining the opinion of a good number of experts, that when the condom is employed as a contraceptive, it is not totally dependable, and that the cases of pregnancy is not rare," Trujillo said. "In the case of the Aids virus, which is around 450 times smaller than the sperm cell, the condom's latex material obviously gives much less security."

Experts from the World Health Organisation have said that Church's claims are wrong and that condoms are 90% effective in preventing the transmission of HIV. In the other 10% of cases the condom was used improperly, broke, slipped or had passed its use-by date.

SOURCE
Sunday Times/AFP

LINKS
BBC TV Panorama: Sex and the Holy City | Transcript | View program (requires Real Player)
HIV/Aids: Catholic Church in Condom Palaver (Vanguard/allafrica.com)
WHO slams cardinal condom claim (news.com.au/AP)
Condom Controversy Surprises Vatican (AP)
Cardinal: Condoms don't block AIDS virus (News-Leader/AP)
Vatican 'Surprised" By Condom Attack (365gay.com)

To read a little more about the ideas that this group is promoting, go to the source at www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/family/ and see for yourself.

[Draxy]

It's interesting. Both the good cardinal and the WHO have good points here. There IS a tendency to see the condom as a panacea by those who are willing to engage in unwise sexual practices and while not quite as bad as the Russian Roulette odds (1 in 6 as a standard) they aren't to far off of them (the 1 in 10 of contracting HIV while using a condom during a sex act with an HIV positive individual).

BUT... the posting of such a warning would be counter productive, say the WHO spokespersons ... and I agree. The same people who want to see the condom as a panacea are the same who would discontinue it's use (thus greatly increasing their chances of contracting HIV) because they can no longer see it as a panacea.

Interesting that a Catholic Church representative should parade this out as an "official stance". They'd actually been less boneheaded than this recently.

Draxy

[Hussar]

Another idea. Since the 10% failure rate is due to breaking, improper use or using old condoms, maybe, just maybe, teaching people how to use them properly would be a better idea. If the WHO is telling the truth and a properly used condom does stop AIDS, then, hey, let's teach people how to use them properly instead of complaining about how condoms shouldn't be used at all.

[Draxy]

You're preaching to the converted Chaplain.

Quote: BUT... the posting of such a warning would be counter productive, say the WHO spokespersons ... and I agree. End Quote.

I just see where the Cardinal is coming from. As I also said, I think it's boneheaded, but I do see where he's at.


Draxy

[Hussar]

Sorry Draxy, that wasn't an arguement with you. Really. I agree with you completely. (Sheesh, that's twice in a row on this board. ) It scares me when people in authority positions really don't have a clue about the reality of the situation. I don't care if it's 100 per cent effective or not, ANYTHING that can be done to slow the spread of AIDS should be done. People like this just fly straight up my left nostril.

[Merkuri]

In biology class one day our professor drew a picture on the board. It looked something like this.

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She says, this is what a magnified condom looks like. Then she adds a little dot to the drawing.

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This, she says, is HIV.

Now, I don't know about anyone else, but I'd like to know this before I do anything with my BF who has HIV. I'd want to know that, even with a condom, there is still a chance of infection. As I said before, I don't know about anyone else, but if I know my BF is infected and that condoms aren't 100% guaranteed I'd abstain. I don't want to take any chances.

[Wyrmfire]

Yeah, it seems like people with HIV (that know it, anyway) shouldn't have sex PERIOD. I don't care if it's hard to abstain, you DO NOT risk someone's life so that you can have an orgasm. Remember that WHO guy said that one of the reasons for failure was breakage? That is, totally separate from being used improperly or being expired. It just happens sometimes.

[Hussar]

Yeah, it happens when people are too bloody cheap to buy decent condoms. I've lived in Korea and Japan for the past seven years or so. The pill just became legal in Japan last year (or maybe the year before) and very few girls in Korea were on the pill. Result, LOTS of condom use. I've never once had a condom break.

[Draxy]

Now Hussar, it isn't always cheap condoms. I've used Trojans that have failed at the test (broken during especially passionate encounters) and they are an industry standard in reliability.

Granted, that was twice out of God alone knows how many packs used... but the fact still remains that it can happen.

Draxy

[CharleHu$$tle]

Nothing is fool Proof

Cause a Fool is Using them

But COndoms to help Stop STD

It's rumored that if everyone used condoms and Were having Safe Sex that Aids Could be wiped out is a COuple of Generations.

[Wyrmfire]

AIDS would be wiped out in a couple generations if everyone were in monogomous relationships, too.

[Cyberpaladin85]

And if people stopped sharing needles as well.

[khyron1144]

And the bloody stupid human race could be eliminated in a generation if everybody abastained from sex.


Unfortunately nothing that good is likely to happen.

[ShonenSenshiDave]

Couple of things to address:

First of all, someone please shut this bishop up. <sigh> I have to agree with Hussar. One of the reasons condoms are not effective is the fact that people don't use them properly, but the government is stopping every attempt to make sure kids know how to use them! Up where my parents live, for example, it's pretty, well, backwards. Many young women have children of their own before they are adults, and the HIV infection rate is apparently quite high. Why? Because these kids don't have access to sexual well-being classes. So instead of being able to obtain and properly use condoms, they do it unprotected and screw up their lives royally. Nice trade off.I honestly do not belive that teaching our children about safe sex will make them run out and do it; it will just help them learn to make the right choices when they do.

Secondly, anyone actually looked at a condom package lately? Here's the warning on the back of a box of condoms (yes I have condoms, sue me!): "IF USED PROPERLY, ****** brand latex condoms will help reduce the risk of unwanted pregnancies and and catching or spreading HIV infection and manynother sexually transmitted diseases. NO METHOD OF CONTRACEPTION can provide 100% protection against pregancy or HIV or STDs. Non-vaginal (poster's note: read, "anal sex") use of condoms can increase the potential of them slipping or being damages, please consult your physician for advice." There were a few more sentences, but not really relevant here... anyway, I'm sure you're all wondering "what's the point?" The point is, we already HAVE these warnings on condoms. Do we give the stats, no. But anyone who can actually read will get the warning the dear Cardinal is recommending!

And now for Wyrmfire. Having been in past relationships with HIV positive men, there are a number of ways that a seriodivergent couple can have sex without actually having intercourse or engaging in high-risk activities. The idea that anyone can tell someone not to have sex EVER is bullcrape. Oh, and for the record, I've been negative for 13 years now. It's called playing safe! This of course assumes that the people involved have the common courtesy to speak about it. If someone engages in high risk activity with someone without asking about HIV status and then using protection anyway...well, that's Darwinism at work, folks. And for the record, please don't equate being promiscuous with being stupid. You can be promiscuous and still be safe. And you can be gay and safe. And in open relationships and safe. It's all about COMMUNICATION! If you can't talk about it, you probably shouldn't be doing it!

[Merkuri]

It's all about knowledge. People should be given as many advantages to gain knowledge as possible. They should be taught to use condoms properly, and they should also be taught that they aren't 100% effective. Perhaps they should even be taught methods to "have fun" while reducing their chance of contracting the disease. I do think condoms should be labeled with a warning that they aren't foolproof (which, apparently they are, and that's fine), because people deserve all the knowledge they can get. If they have access to this knowledge and know how to get it, but they don't pay attention, then it's their own faults. Here's your Darwin award, nice knowing you.