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Post by RowanMoonWynd on Oct 25, 2003 15:08:00 GMT -5
I'm just asking everyone's opinion on this because I'm curious. Both of my boys have been diagnosed with this when they both were in first grade. My oldest is ADHD as he has the extreme hyperactivity along with the attention deficit, and my youngest son is ADD without the hyperactivity though he is more on the severe side because he has alot of attention problems. School has always been a problem with both of these boys because of it, especially for my youngest as he is "out in space" 90% of the time and does not listen in class when instruction is being taught. Do you think environmental factors such as all the preservatives they put in our foods has contributed to this fact, or does it have more to do with genetics?
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Post by Wyrmfire on Oct 25, 2003 15:14:46 GMT -5
I hope I don't sound insensitive to peoples disabilities when I say this, but I really think most, something in the order of 90%, of the ADD/ADHD cases out there are total bull****. "Well, m'am, your 10 year old son has trouble sitting in place for 8 hours at a time and not being allowed to move or speak. We're afraid he has a mental disorder." All of these "ADD" cases are just the natural consequence of the increase of "sedentary" methods of children's play- before, kids could just burn off their energy playing cops 'n robbers, but they can't do that with pokemon, and besides, playing cops and robbers constitutes assault with a deadly weapon now . When kids sit still at school, and then sit still at home, you just get problems. It's not a chemcal imbalance or anything, its just that kids NEED TO PLAY.
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Post by RowanMoonWynd on Oct 25, 2003 15:22:48 GMT -5
I agree with you. Alot of times they are diagnosed with something like this when they are not. Alot of times the teachers don't want to take the time to handle the child, and just throw them on meds so they are easier to control. My son's first grade teacher is the perfect example of this. She didn't want anything to do with him before he was on the meds, and all she could do was complain and whine, but after he got on the meds she couldn't say enough good things about him, and even gave him the student of the month award. I'm not saying all teachers are like that, but there are some that are. Now my son is a true case of ADD because even with the meds and all the extra help the school has given to him, he still struggles. So for the cases that are true, do you think it's environmental or genetics?
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Post by Wyrmfire on Oct 25, 2003 15:28:07 GMT -5
Genetics, probably. Of course, I am probably biased because I was raised by a geneticist . I think that ADD has been around for pretty much forever (so it isn't preservatives or anything), but it has only recently become handicap, due to modern society. In a situation where there is an element of risk in concentrating on any one thing exclusively, the impulse to fidget is a great survival tactic.
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Post by RowanMoonWynd on Oct 25, 2003 15:32:48 GMT -5
I was just curious because twenty years ago you didn't hear of this. I know genetics is a big part of it, but I was curious as to if environmental factors have contributed to this to make it as widespread as it is today.
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Post by Wyrmfire on Oct 25, 2003 15:36:03 GMT -5
Well, a lot of the reason you didn't hear about things like this is that teachers were much more apt to just label a kid as "stupid" (didn't use that word, but that's what it was). These days, there is an impulse to find excuses for our deficiencies instead, and ADD is the answer to finding excuses for those same kids.
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Post by Dr. Doom III on Oct 26, 2003 0:02:34 GMT -5
Generally Doom associates both "conditions" with the modern way of raising children. i.e. With no discipline.
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Post by Hussar on Oct 26, 2003 3:45:58 GMT -5
What a joke. Everybody either jumps up to blame the teachers or the parents. It makes me laugh.
You don't think that it has something to do with the fact that we've become the most intollerant generation in since the eighteen hundreds? Think about it for a second. Think about the stories that maybe your dad or your grandfather told of the stupid things they did when they were teens. What happened to them? They got a slap on the wrist and were sent on their way.
Take drinking and driving. A perfect example. Thirty years ago, if you were caught with a beer in hand while you were driving, half the time the cop would take your beer and send you home. Maybe, just maybe, if you were really hammered, he'd lock you up for the night and send you home in the morning. Now, if you get caught that way, you lose your license for 6 months, pay a huge fine, and possibly go to jail. That's what I mean by intollerance. The list goes on and on.
Thirty years ago, if little Johnny got into a fight at school, everyone ignored it. Now, you get into a fight at school, the world comes to an end. We have a zero tolerance policy in our schools for any sort of behavior which does not conform perfectly. Wyrmy, you hit it on the head. If the kids play cops and robbers, suddenly it's assault with a deadly weapon. If a kid brings an aspirin to school because he doesn't feel too good, suddenly he's a drug dealer.
Who's to blame for all this? The baby boomers, that's who. They are the ones who have done this to us. They are the ones who had everything handed to them on a silver platter and screwed it up so that none of the rest of us can have any. First it was, "No, you can't fail my little Johnny, he's a good boy." Then it was, "You can't discipline my little Johnny, he's a good boy." Then it was, "You can't speak that way to my little Johnny, he's a good boy." Now, after taking away any credibility or power that the teachers once had, the only recourse the teachers have left is the doctors. Instead of saying, "Well, Mrs. Smith, your little Johnny is a little bastard and should be held back." We say, "Your little Johnny has a problem and you have to deal with it."
The baby boomers wanted all the power. Now they got it. Welcome to it.
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Post by Wyrmfire on Oct 26, 2003 13:48:42 GMT -5
I agree with you hussar that that is at least part of the problem. Story time: When my dad was my age, he was going to Texas A&M just like I am now. If you know anything about A&M, it's that the corps of cadets are more or less the highest ones on the social totem pole- chicks dig a man in uniform . My dad's dorm decided that they wanted to bring them down a notch. College practical joke time, naturally. What do they do? Well, a fair amount of people at A&M back then were fresh off the farm, and farmers have access to fairly large amount of explosives. So, the joke proceeded as follows: at about 4 in the morning, they surrounded one of the corp's dorms. They planted and lit enough dynamite to blow down 2 inch thick steel doors, embedded in concrete, quite literally designed something like a bunker. After gaining themselves entrance, they ran in, and turned on every faucet, plugged every toilet, and locked every stall door from the inside (wriggling out on the floor afterwords). After the university found out about it, what happened? Nothing. Everyone involved got academic suspension, which is just a slap on teh wrist. My dad went on to get a PhD in molecular biology, go to work for the University, and ended up helping make our animal disease testing center so successful that we get samples from Japan, not to mention the fact that the FBI now relies on him to detect many incoming acts of terrorism (against teh cattle industry ). He would have been CALLED a terrorist if he did that now...
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Post by RowanMoonWynd on Oct 26, 2003 13:50:39 GMT -5
Hussar,
I can agree with you on your point also. I wasn't blaming the teachers, but from PERSONAL experience I have had to deal with two teachers who had that attitude. As I said, one was my yongest son's first grade teacher. She even went as far as to tell me and I quote "In my 32 years of teaching I have never had a child as bad as yours." Now it wasn't behaviour problems she was having, my son could not (and still can't in sitxth grade) pay attention and stay on task without the teacher constantly on him to keep him focused. I spent over a thousand dollars having him tested and then put on the meds. I even went as far as having his psychologist come to the shcool and meet with her and the counselors and the principal to explain why my son was having so many problems. She asked him (the psychologist) "when am I going to have to stop being responsible for this child?" He was not one of her easy students and she didn't want to be bothered with him. Then he was put on Ritalin and she totally changed her opinion of him. He was able to focus and when she didn't have to spend so much time with him to help him, he became the student of the month.
When my oldest son was in fifth grade, I had the same problem with another teacher. He was on meds. He was on Adderall, Zoloft, and Depacoat, but his was more of a behaviour problem than learning. She kept calling me, you have to do something about your son, he's interrupting my class and I can't teach. Now I had done everything to him, grounded him, took away previldges, and so on. The more he got punished, the worse it got. I finally had to put him in the hospital in the children's psychiatric ward for two weeks. The hospital said he was ADHD along with a mood disorder-not otherwise specified. When it all came out in the end, she didn't like my son and would say things to him to set him off. My son ended up going back to live with his dad because he just could not deal with her. A couple of years later when this teacher retired, I found out from the students in the younger grades that were in the same class with my youngest son, they were all happy because there were horror stories going around about how this teacher was and no one wanted to be in her class.
On the other hand, I have had teachers who have gone out of their way and have been patient with my boys, and they excelled with those teachers. Even their self esteem improved. So I do think the way a teacher handles these kids plays a big part in how they act. But that is my opinion.
Now for the way there is no discipline in today's children. I agree with you 100%. I am afraid to lay a hand on my children for fear of leaving a mark and having them taken away from me. When I was growing up, I got beat just about everyday, but back then you didn't have to worry about having your child taken away from you for discipling them. I'm not saying it's okay to beat your child because it's not. All I am saying is parents were alot harsher and stricter on their children than what they are now, and yeah maybe every now and then a child needs a good spanking (spanking, not beating) but parents are afraid to nowdays because they can lose their child for it. I think if I were going to blame anyone it would be society. Society is the one who makes all the rules that we are supposed to go by. Another thing I think plays a fact is the way our economy is. Thankfully I can stay at home with my children, but alot of parents don't get that priveledge. So you have children being brought up and raised in daycare centers and then when they get old enough to stay home alone, there are no parents around to monitor what the child is doing. It makes it easier for a child to hide from the parent what they are doing and who their friends are and what they are being introduced to. But is it the parents fault that they can't afford to stay home with their child? No, it's not. I think alot of control has been taken away from the parents and it needs to be given back to them.
IMHO of course.
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Rayst
Peasant
If I knew then what I know now, would I really have changed anything?
Posts: 41
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Post by Rayst on Oct 26, 2003 17:39:47 GMT -5
This is from someone who was diagnosed with ADD and given Rytalin for it. I never paid attention in class, I would always fidget, and I never did any of the assigned work. My mom spend several thousand dollars and many months trying to figure out why. The PhD's all had the same answer, chemical inbalance in my brain that made it process information faster than what it was receiving. If a teacher had four things on the board I was trying to look at the other three before they finished with the first one and that caused me to be bored and figity. BULL****! I did not care about school work and no one would grasp that concept. "Oh, you need this drug to help balance your mind out" Heh, that stuff balanced me out so bad I started having paranoid delusions after only a month. And it still didn't help with the consentration problem People are quick to blame something, anything, for a childs behavior. TV, music, movies, bad parents and such. I will admit these things have caused problems, but there is one thing people forget. SOME KIDS JUST DON'T CARE! I should know, I was one. My parents were very good parents, TV was not something that controled my life, it was just a distraction for a few hours a day. I just did things my way because I wanted to, regardless of what anyone thought. I was to blame, not anything or anyone else, just me. I don't mean to rant but this is a sensitive topic for me. Everyone tries to focus on "This is the definitive reason these things happen" and loose sight on the fact that there are numerous reasons for any one thing to happen. I had a friend that was diagnosed ADHD and put on drugs. Did it help? Yes. Did he really need them? No, its just that no one would take the time to sit with him and make him pay attention. But on the other side have the drugs helped others when all other options failed? I'm sure of it. Eh, sorry for the long confused post, I was trying to be clear and concise but my ADD wouldn't let me ;D
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Post by Galadon on Oct 27, 2003 17:21:00 GMT -5
Taking another path, one of your sons seem "out there" Maybe he could be bored and in need of more of a challenge. I knew a man who thought one of his sons was slow and didn't learn as fast as others.
The opposite was true his son was above average intelligence, but was bored silly. How do you check for this, I don't know. But I'm not one who thinks my children, if I had any, have a add or anything else untill I got opions from more than one person.
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Post by RowanMoonWynd on Oct 27, 2003 17:45:24 GMT -5
I have gotten more than one opinion from someone. My son has seen several doctors and they all say the same thing. He is ADD. He has seen three psychiatrists and has been working with counselors over the years.
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Post by CharleHu$$tle on Oct 27, 2003 17:54:28 GMT -5
Personally I think it's Genitics
but hey man your children have a handi cap to over come... Or else they won't fit in.
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Post by Galadon on Oct 27, 2003 18:00:45 GMT -5
Teachers no, their job is to teach. But I hold parents resposible for their children.
We in the Marine Corps have a saying
"Excuses are like feet. Everybody has a couple and they all stink."
I have heard to many excuses from bad parents, and seen many good parents who don't give excuses.
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