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Post by Shadowdragon on Oct 3, 2004 13:18:01 GMT -5
A wizard (from 'wise') is a practitioner of paranormal magic, especially in folklore, fantasy fiction, and fantasy role-playing games (FRPGs). The word does not generally apply to Neopagans
From the Oxford Dictionary
wizard
• noun 1 a man who has magical powers, especially in legends and fairy tales. 2 a person who is very skilled in a particular field or activity.
• adjective Brit. informal, dated excellent.
— DERIVATIVES wizardly adjective.
— ORIGIN originally in the sense philosopher, wise man: from WISE
From Online Etymology Dictionary (for those that don't know, Etymology is the study of word origins.)
wizard early 15c., "philosopher, sage," from M.E. wys "wise" + -ard. The meaning "one with magical power" did not emerge distinctly until c.1550, the distinction between philosophy and magic being blurred in the Middle Ages.
Funny, when I looked up the word wiccard, I got nothing in any language from any time period. The word doesn't seem to exist except as a name of a company or person.
Would you mind giving me your source on this one so that I might look it up? (I do see similarities -- both begining with a word for "wise" but am interested in where your derivation of the word came from)
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Post by LadyWinterWolf on Oct 3, 2004 20:27:19 GMT -5
I looked up the word "wiccard" on Google, and it came up with Porteguese, meaning Wicca....so Werlin is on the right track, just a different language....sort of.
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Post by Shadowdragon on Oct 3, 2004 21:38:38 GMT -5
Never said he wasn't, just that I hadn't come across it doing a search of the word's origin. But, both seem to be based on the word wise, so there's that.
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Post by Werlin on Oct 4, 2004 4:02:16 GMT -5
You won't find any information on it searching the internet, you will have to actually go to the Library of Congress, look up a book there that is written in Gaelic, It's all photo-copied now cause the pages are crumbling, they don't want people to really play around with the original.
The name I believe is called. "Morigu Pog" In there it speaks of Wiccards and of course, alot of the Celtic Gods and Goddess.
The reason you won't find information on it is because of the fact that its a nearly a non-exsistent book, ONLY the Library of Congress has the original, and any copies belong to it as well.
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Post by RowanMoonWynd on Oct 4, 2004 8:26:32 GMT -5
When I looked into the Library of Congress online, and typed in "Morigu Pog" here is a link to the info I got.............. www.loc.gov/about/books/guides/pdfs/Asia.pdfIt is an Asian document. No results were found for wiccard. I am curious to know as to how you know the ony information available on it is in the Library of Congress.
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Post by Werlin on Oct 4, 2004 9:47:29 GMT -5
Well now if that isn't the silliest question I ever heard.
I've been there Rowan, I go there all the time, VA is not too far from D.C. and I love to read.
I also find it very amusing that you think Morigu Pog is a Asian text. LOL
Specially when in gaelic, Morigu is the name of a Celtic Goddess and Pog is the gaelic word for kiss.
Hence the name is "Morigu's Kiss"
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Post by RowanMoonWynd on Oct 4, 2004 14:36:26 GMT -5
I didn't think the question was silly at all. I didn't know the information, so I asked, and how is one supposed to learn if they do not ask questions and find out the information? I did not think that Morgiu Pog was an Asian document. That is what came up when I typed for the search in the Library of Congress' search engine, and all I was doing was giving the information on what I had found.
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Post by LadyWinterWolf on Oct 4, 2004 15:50:39 GMT -5
When sincerely seeking understanding and knowledge, no question is silly.
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Post by Shadowdragon on Oct 4, 2004 17:44:42 GMT -5
For that matter, the only stupid or silly question is the one never asked.
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Post by Shadowdragon on Oct 5, 2004 6:34:05 GMT -5
[From the Online Etymology Dictionary] - Witch
O.E. wicca "sorcerer, wizard" (fem. wicce "witch"), perhaps from P.Gmc. *wikkjaz "necromancer" (one who wakes the dead), from PIE *weg-yo-, from *weg- "to be strong, be lively." Related to O.E. wiccian "to practice witchcraft," itself related to wigle "divination," wig "idol," and Gothic weihs "holy" and weihan "consecrate." Extended sense of "young woman or girl of bewitching aspect or manners" is first recorded 1740. Witch-hunt is from 1640 in the literal sense; the extended sense is 1938, by George Orwell, popularized in Cold War anti-Communist hysteria. Witchcraft is O.E. wiccecræft, from cræft "power, skill." "Witches were liable to be burned till 1736." [Weekley] Witch doctor is from 1718; applied to African magicians from 1836.
- Magic (n.)
c.1384, "art of influencing events and producing marvels," from O.Fr. magique, from L. magice "sorcery, magic," from Gk. magike (presumably with tekhne "art"), fem. of magikos "magical," from magos "one of the members of the learned and priestly class," from O.Pers. magush, possibly from PIE *magh- "to be able, to have power" (see machine). Displaced O.E. wiccecræft (see witch); also drycræft, from dry "magician," from Ir. drui "priest, magician" (see druid). Transferred sense of "legerdemain, optical illusion, etc." is from 1811. Magic carpet first attested 1909. Magic Marker (1956) is a reg. trademark (U.S.) by Speedry Products, Inc., Richmond Hill, N.Y. Magic lantern "optical instrument whereby a magnified image is thrown upon a wall or screen" is 1696, from Mod.L. laterna magica.
- Pagan
c.1375, from L.L. paganus "pagan," in classical L. "villager, rustic, civilian," from pagus "rural district," originally "district limited by markers," thus related to pangere "to fix, fasten," from PIE base *pag- "to fix" (see pact). Religious sense is often said to derive from conservative rural adherence to the old gods after the Christianization of Roman towns and cities; but the word in this sense predates that period in Church history, and it is more likely derived from the use of paganus in Roman military jargon for "civilian, incompetent soldier," which Christians (Tertullian, c.202; Augustine) picked up with the military imagery of the early Church (e.g. milites "soldier of Christ," etc.). Applied to modern pantheists and nature-worshippers from 1908. Paganism is attested from 1433.
So magic itself was once also associated with "members of the learned and priestly class" again pointing us towards wise as a comon thread through this discussion. As both wizard and magic have roots in words meaning learned or wise. So in it's original sense, Pagan is simply a rural person, that stuck to the old ways when everything else was changing to the Christian belief system. Whereas now, the term is being applied (for just under a hundred years now) to those that choose the old ways (gods) over the widely spread belief system. So it's gone from describing one that wasn't brought into the mainstream faith system, to one that chooses to follow the old ways for their own reasons. Anybody else have any thoughts on this? ~~~edited for content~~~
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Post by LadyWinterWolf on Oct 6, 2004 0:15:38 GMT -5
Hence why the phrase "wise old woman" came to mean witch as time went on. They were the healers, herbalists, midwives of the village, and they were depended upon to aid the people of their village with their knowledge....learned knowledge in a sense, since via their "experimentation" with plants, herbs, minerals, they could determine the best "treatments" for ailments.
Now to get away from "quoted" references, I was wondering SD what exactly your faith is. I know that Kaber and I asked you a few times, and I've seen you wearing a pentacle ring, but we didn't ever get a firm answer from you. So I'm curious about what Pagan sect you follow, and the pantheon you worship?
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Post by Werlin on Oct 6, 2004 3:12:12 GMT -5
If your trying to tell me that the word "Pagan" ment that the Village Folk never followed Christianity, that would mean that they would fall under anything "Non-Christian" which all them back then were a Polythesistic belief structure. Unless under the belief of being a "Satanist" in which they were no longer called Pagans but Satanists. You can study the Witch hunts and find that once they were accused of worshipping the devil, the name Pagan was not really used anymore. There are a few instances that it was, but not all that terribly much. There was also no such thing as "Athiests" back in that time frame either. You either worshipped multiple Gods, or One God, no other choices then that.
So if you were a Village Dweller who did not dabble in the Mainstream Religion, you were called a Pagan. Today, we use that term in the same meaning. A Pagan is someone who does not follow the Mainstream religion of Christianity. It's as simple as that.
~~~edited for content~~~
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